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    World and Stats page

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    whit10

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    World and Stats page

    Post  whit10 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:48 pm

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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  whit10 on Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:36 pm

    Ok... I have been working on this for the past couple of weeks and this is the starting point (there will be more rules and such added as the weeks go by).

    Your world is Earth, circa 1925.  WWI was fought, as per normal, but there were 'magical' phenomena that started to be seen in the war's immediate aftermath (possibly earlier?)  The battlefields of WWI, for example, are places of despair and 'evil'.  Most people avoid the areas around Verdun, the Somme Tannenberg and Ypres both consciously and unconsciously.  

    Europe is in a turmoil.  Germany is rather chaotic, still smarting under the Treaty of Versailles (and before anyone brings it up, no one outside of Bavaria has heard of Hitler other than as a madman that tried to take over the Bavarian gov. in a half-baked attempt at power.  Write him off for now).  Russia is in the midst of its brutal civil war and it's worse than it was 'historically'.  The other nations all have different problems dealing with the arcane, miracles, monsters and everything else.  There is no 'concerted' effort to deal with these phenomena.  Many places like Britain and the U.S. have delegated such investigations to small groups that have minor connections to the government but are privately funded (less fallout if the public knew).  Africa and Asia are still largely ruled by European powers, but this is becoming more unstable in light of the arcane/mystical powers that have started showing up.  Localized versions of the 'Great Ghost Dance' are appearing in some of the colonial states along the periphery.  The only reason that most nations aren't trying to use magic for military purposes, at this point, is due to the horror of the Great War (WWI).  Most nations have small armed forces right now given cost and need.  Britain and France still try to maintain their far-flung empires but this is not without difficulty as years go by.

    Religious institutions, like the Catholic Church, are still arguing internally about how to handle the magical world that seems to have descended on them.  There are those that have 'true faith' that can heal the sick and injured.  There are also those, far more numerous than the genuine article, that claim to be able to heal and just use chicanery and bluff to do the same thing.  

    Scholars point to smaller instances of the same phenomena in the late 1880s and 90s.  Far more ghost sightings, stories of monsters, occurrences of witchcraft, demonic possession, monsters that change during a full moon, vampiric victims, etc.  Then it just stopped until recently.  I will have a full timeline of events soon.

    Preliminary nuts and bolts:

    I like Radiance but I just don't like aspects of it's system.  In light of this, I'm trying an experiment.  We're going to use Pathfinder, with 99% of it's normal rules.  However, Vampires and Werewolves will be an 'add on' race as far as powers.  For example, take Dhampir as a race: get rid of the ability modifiers (from race).  The starting package is added to a normal race.  If you're an elf, then you're an elven vampire.  You get bonuses when you use your blood pool (which will work like a Grit/Ki/Arcane pool) for combat or something similar but the major advantage is that you are immortal, can have super speed, strength, etc. and can take any class you want.  You WILL have restrictions on feeding (must pick a type of humanoid that you feed on) and you will be weaker against fire or the sun (I'm working this part out still).  

    In the case of werewolves, I'm pretty much just taking the Lycanthrope package from the PF Bestiary and tinkering with it.  You'll have higher strength and constitution when you shape change but you will have a weakness against silver (severity is being figured out).  For now, I'd like to restrict the other races to the following:  Human (heavily dominant), Dwarf, Elf, Half-Elf, Gnome, Aasimar, Ifrits, Oreads, Sylphs, and Undines.  Note:  Aasimar, Ifrits, Oreads, Sylphs and Undines MAY NOT take the add on race of vampire or werewolf.  No one knows why yet, but those beings seem to be resistant to lycanthropy and vampirism.  I'm leaning towards allowing Half-Orcs and Drow as well as they can sort of look human or at least deceive the majority population.

    No restrictions on class except for Cavaliers, they just don't fit. I'm adding Noble (from Star Wars, though it's very underpowered vs. many of the PF classes, it's a good multi-class option).  Gunslingers will lose the Feat: Gunsmith and will get their Gun Training power at 2nd level and may add a new gun at every 4 levels thereafter.  

    Fighters... completely changed.  IF you want to play a normal, medieval style fighter, go ahead (though I can't imagine why).  If, however, you want to play a modern fighter, you will play the Soldier Archetype that I'm partially lifting from SW.  You lose all armor and shield proficiency except light armor and you lose the bonus feat at 1st level (you still get one every level thereafter unless you multi-class or something to screw up the progression).  In place of those, you gain proficiency with all gun classes: pistols, shotguns, rifles, light machine guns (tommy-gun anyone?)  You will also lose proficiency with any sort of crossbow but you will keep bows (people still bowhunt at this time but I'm almost certain that crossbows were no longer in use. Those came back after modern materials made them useful again and you had nerds like us starting SCA, lol).  You will also get Gun Training (as per the Gunslinger) at 4th level, 8th level, 12th level and 16th level.  You can't use the Grit powers (unless you take Amateur Gunslinger) but you're still almost as good with guns as a Gunslinger. Weapon Training stays as is, Armor Training is lost; light armor doesn't drop movement anyway.

    Otherwise, shotguns and pistols are a simple weapon for purposes of all other classes EXCEPT Barbarian, in which case they are all exotic weapons.  You do not get to add your Dex. bonus to damage (like a GS or Fighter-Soldier) but they are so common that they count as simple weapons.  For balance, I'm making Rifles and Machine Guns martial weapons.  Light artillery pieces and heavy machine guns will be their own martial weapon feat if you so choose to take them.  Things like flamethrowers will be considered exotic weapons given their rarity.  Remember: planes, trains and automobiles are now VERY common but horses, mules and camels are still used by large numbers of people around the world.  We are also going to use a form of Defence Class bonus. Each fighting class: Fighter, Gunslinger, Samurai, Paladin, Ranger and Cavalier

    Surgery and Knowledge: Medicine will be new class skills for some (still figuring that part out).  This will allow for non-magical healing beyond the skill Heal (which is kinda worthless for anything but normal damage).  It will still be slower than miracles (cure spells) but will be far more common.  And hey, germ theory has been discovered so it won't be dark-ages medicine!

    Drive and Pilot will be new skills and will be Dex. based.  If you have 5 ranks in any Knowledge skill, I will treat you as having been educated at some sort of university and you will have a degree; if you so choose, of course.  

    As for what is going on that might drive your characters, think of it this way... what would have happened if, all of a sudden, a sort of rip developed in-between the world as we know it and the world according to legend?  These things weren't just stories and myths, they had grains of truth to them.  I personally see hundreds of ideas for characters with this... and I WILL be trying to plan encounters and obstacles that are not just combat driven.  One of the great things about the original WoD is that it had a very mental component to it instead of just hack and slash (or hack and shoot?).  Anyway, use of guile and tact, or bluff, will be as good as being able to hit a bird in the eye at a 1000 feet in high wind with your Springfield Rifle.  An Indy type character obviously fits into this but so does a mad scientist, vampire manipulator, vampire werewolf hunter, Werewolf freedom fighter (communist?), adventurers, explorers...

    Far more to come and I'll start putting things on special pages for rules and background... fire away with your questions/ideas.

    ...oh, 4th level to start with and use the 25 point package for stats.  Money is comparable but don't go all in for magic items yet, I want to look some things over first.
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    Chirs2

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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  Chirs2 on Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:10 pm

    cheers great start!

    Are you seeing us as more of a party orientation or more of the adversarial orientation, like the original WoD?
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    MAS
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  MAS on Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:38 am

    Nice launch!

    Are other types of Lycanthropes open?
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    Chirs2

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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  Chirs2 on Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:17 am

    MAS wrote:Nice launch!

    Are other types of Lycanthropes open?

    I forgot about the others - werebears, werecats, werespiders.... and the werecrocs! They had that primal memory from the dinosaur times  afro 
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  whit10 on Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:51 am

    um, they exist... let me think about whether or not to make them playable
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  navyik on Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:11 pm

    I will need more explanation of class defense... scratch 
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  MAS on Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:22 am

    Were-ravens!
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    Chirs2

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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  Chirs2 on Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:27 am

    navyik wrote:I will need more explanation of class defense... scratch 

    think Star Wars - it is not "Armor" class, since armor is virtually non-existent, but it is Defense Class, based on your class and level. Guns are all Ranged Touch Attacks, so armor is only useful for Damage Reduction.

    I think Josh was saying DC is 1/2 level for martial classes and 1/3 level for non-martial, which correlates pretty closely to SW
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  navyik on Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:32 am

    Thanks. I know how it works, but he didnt give any #'s. So monks get non martial because of wis bonus.
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    Chirs2

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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  Chirs2 on Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:39 am

    navyik wrote:Thanks.  I know how it works, but he didnt give any #'s.  So monks get non martial because of wis bonus.

    whit10 wrote: We are also going to use a form of Defence Class bonus. Each fighting class: Fighter, Gunslinger, Samurai, Paladin, Ranger and Cavalier


    I think this was an unfinished sentence, but he mentioned it in an email or phone chat.
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  navyik on Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:43 am

    Were aardvarks!!!
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    MAS
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  MAS on Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:50 am

    Were-Rhino?!?!?
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  navyik on Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:52 am

    MAS wrote:Were-Rhino?!?!?

    That is BA!!!
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  MAS on Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:07 am

    navyik wrote:
    MAS wrote:Were-Rhino?!?!?

    That is BA!!!

    Crinos form =

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    Robyo

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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  Robyo on Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:58 am

    whit10 wrote: Vampires and Werewolves will be an 'add on' race as far as powers.  For example, take Dhampir as a race: get rid of the ability modifiers (from race).  The starting package is added to a normal race.  If you're an elf, then you're an elven vampire.  You get bonuses when you use your blood pool (which will work like a Grit/Ki/Arcane pool) for combat or something similar but the major advantage is that you are immortal, can have super speed, strength, etc. and can take any class you want.  You WILL have restrictions on feeding (must pick a type of humanoid that you feed on) and you will be weaker against fire or the sun (I'm working this part out still).  

    In the case of werewolves, I'm pretty much just taking the Lycanthrope package from the PF Bestiary and tinkering with it.  You'll have higher strength and constitution when you shape change but you will have a weakness against silver (severity is being figured out).  For now, I'd like to restrict the other races to the following:  Human (heavily dominant), Dwarf, Elf, Half-Elf, Gnome, Aasimar, Ifrits, Oreads, Sylphs, and Undines.  Note:  Aasimar, Ifrits, Oreads, Sylphs and Undines MAY NOT take the add on race of vampire or werewolf.  No one knows why yet, but those beings seem to be resistant to lycanthropy and vampirism.  I'm leaning towards allowing Half-Orcs and Drow as well as they can sort of look human or at least deceive the majority population.

    No restrictions on class except for Cavaliers, they just don't fit.  I'm adding Noble (from Star Wars, though it's very underpowered vs. many of the PF classes, it's a good multi-class option).  Gunslingers will lose the Feat: Gunsmith and will get their Gun Training power at 2nd level and may add a new gun at every 4 levels thereafter.  

    Fighters... completely changed.  IF you want to play a normal, medieval style fighter, go ahead (though I can't imagine why).  If, however, you want to play a modern fighter, you will play the Soldier Archetype that I'm partially lifting from SW.  You lose all armor and shield proficiency except light armor and you lose the bonus feat at 1st level (you still get one every level thereafter unless you multi-class or something to screw up the progression).  In place of those, you gain proficiency with all gun classes: pistols, shotguns, rifles, light machine guns (tommy-gun anyone?)  You will also lose proficiency with any sort of crossbow but you will keep bows (people still bowhunt at this time but I'm almost certain that crossbows were no longer in use. Those came back after modern materials made them useful again and you had nerds like us starting SCA, lol).  You will also get Gun Training (as per the Gunslinger) at 4th level, 8th level, 12th level and 16th level.  You can't use the Grit powers (unless you take Amateur Gunslinger) but you're still almost as good with guns as a Gunslinger.  Weapon Training stays as is, Armor Training is lost; light armor doesn't drop movement anyway.  

    Otherwise, shotguns and pistols are a simple weapon for purposes of all other classes EXCEPT Barbarian, in which case they are all exotic weapons.  You do not get to add your Dex. bonus to damage (like a GS or Fighter-Soldier) but they are so common that they count as simple weapons.  For balance, I'm making Rifles and Machine Guns martial weapons.  Light artillery pieces and heavy machine guns will be their own martial weapon feat if you so choose to take them.  Things like flamethrowers will be considered exotic weapons given their rarity.  Remember: planes, trains and automobiles are now VERY common but horses, mules and camels are still used by large numbers of people around the world.  We are also going to use a form of Defence Class bonus.  Each fighting class: Fighter, Gunslinger, Samurai, Paladin, Ranger and Cavalier

    Surgery and Knowledge: Medicine will be new class skills for some (still figuring that part out).  This will allow for non-magical healing beyond the skill Heal (which is kinda worthless for anything but normal damage).  It will still be slower than miracles (cure spells) but will be far more common.  And hey, germ theory has been discovered so it won't be dark-ages medicine!

    Drive and Pilot will be new skills and will be Dex. based.  If you have 5 ranks in any Knowledge skill, I will treat you as having been educated at some sort of university and you will have a degree; if you so choose, of course.


    ...oh, 4th level to start with and use the 25 point package for stats.  Money is comparable but don't go all in for magic items yet, I want to look some things over first.

    Sounds interesting, but your house rules definitely tip the incentive towards playing vampires and werewolves. Why would anyone bother to play a sylph when they could play a race that is effectively two races? Unless you want everyone to play vampires and werewolves (and be OP), then that's fine. It's your game, after all.

    And why can't a player take a Vampire (human) and then add the were template? Is there some rule that one can't be affected by the other?

    With all the houserule adjustments to race and classes, I think using d20 Modern (or d20 WOD) for core classes and just adding PF skill advancement, plus some Unearthed Arcana bits like Defense or Vitality, would be the way to go. Again, it's your game, so whatever.
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    Chirs2

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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  Chirs2 on Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:49 am

    Robyo wrote:
    whit10 wrote: Vampires and Werewolves will be an 'add on' race as far as powers.  For example, take Dhampir as a race: get rid of the ability modifiers (from race).  The starting package is added to a normal race.  If you're an elf, then you're an elven vampire.  You get bonuses when you use your blood pool (which will work like a Grit/Ki/Arcane pool) for combat or something similar but the major advantage is that you are immortal, can have super speed, strength, etc. and can take any class you want.  You WILL have restrictions on feeding (must pick a type of humanoid that you feed on) and you will be weaker against fire or the sun (I'm working this part out still).  

    In the case of werewolves, I'm pretty much just taking the Lycanthrope package from the PF Bestiary and tinkering with it.  You'll have higher strength and constitution when you shape change but you will have a weakness against silver (severity is being figured out).  For now, I'd like to restrict the other races to the following:  Human (heavily dominant), Dwarf, Elf, Half-Elf, Gnome, Aasimar, Ifrits, Oreads, Sylphs, and Undines.  Note:  Aasimar, Ifrits, Oreads, Sylphs and Undines MAY NOT take the add on race of vampire or werewolf.  

    Sounds interesting, but your house rules definitely tip the incentive towards playing vampires and werewolves. Why would anyone bother to play a sylph when they could play a race that is effectively two races? Unless you want everyone to play vampires and werewolves (and be OP), then that's fine. It's your game, after all.

    I asked Josh the exact same question!

    I highlighted a couple parts above, that I think answers the question.  Basically, with the restrictions, the races are not more powerful overall.  They do have more abilities but also some harsher vulnerabilities.  Regular races (except maybe Drow) don't have vulnerabilities to anything, for example.

    If, for example,  a Dhamphir is blinded in the sunlight and takes double damage vs fire and his DR doesn't apply, then that should give him some other advantages.  Not to mention having to feed on blood (if Josh goes that route) - that is a huge social disadvantage, since he can't just walk into a restaurant and order a burger.  And if they use their blood pool.... they have to feed again.  In Vampire, unless you were just evil and ate people (which attracts a lot of attention), acquiring blood was an effort, so blood was spent sparingly.

    If Josh stays true to White Wolf, then were-Xs are still pretty weak in human form, no stat bonuses (see  above), etc.  When they go Crinos, yes they gain some physical stats, claws, bite, etc... but they are a MONSTER and should be reacted to accordingly by most folks, which is another social disadvantage.  Not to mention double damage from silver and no DR.

    I like that Josh is keeping the core rules PF, which is overall balanced in terms of classes, combat, magic, skills, but adding some racial variety.  I think d20 and 3.x are a hot mess of imbalance when you start dumping them all in 1 pot.  I had argued for Radiance, since they have Shifters and Dhampirs already, but I understand as a GM, Josh is most familiar with PF, so it makes more sense.
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  whit10 on Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:56 am

    Yeah, sorry I didn't finish that sentence. Defense Class gives a +1 bonus per two levels for the fighting classes I mentioned, the other ones gain the same bonus every 3 levels. I'll have the vampire and werewolf stuff added today.

    Rob, I totally see what you're saying. They will have significant weaknesses that a non-vamp or werewolf won't have to deal with. I like the PF system the most of the ones I've played recently (I think the d20 modern game sucks). I was really close to using Radiance but we're already playing a campaign with that system and I'm a bit partial towards PF. I'm doing something a little un-orthodox so I figure it will require fine-tuning.

    More to come today.... of course I just realized that it's 4/20 today. lol
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  whit10 on Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:00 am

    No were-rhinos. No were aardvarks, no were-otters, kangaroos or others for now.

    Now be good or I'll make were-creatures all be were-chinchillas.  Twisted Evil 
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    navyik

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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  navyik on Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:24 pm

    Taco bell would be in trouble!
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    Arcturus2

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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  Arcturus2 on Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:01 am

    whit10 wrote: Fighters... completely changed.  IF you want to play a normal, medieval style fighter, go ahead (though I can't imagine why).  If, however, you want to play a modern fighter, you will play the Soldier Archetype that I'm partially lifting from SW.  You lose all armor and shield proficiency except light armor and you lose the bonus feat at 1st level (you still get one every level thereafter unless you multi-class or something to screw up the progression).  In place of those, you gain proficiency with all gun classes: pistols, shotguns, rifles, light machine guns (tommy-gun anyone?)  You will also lose proficiency with any sort of crossbow but you will keep bows (people still bowhunt at this time but I'm almost certain that crossbows were no longer in use. Those came back after modern materials made them useful again and you had nerds like us starting SCA, lol).  You will also get Gun Training (as per the Gunslinger) at 4th level, 8th level, 12th level and 16th level.  You can't use the Grit powers (unless you take Amateur Gunslinger) but you're still almost as good with guns as a Gunslinger. Weapon Training stays as is, Armor Training is lost; light armor doesn't drop movement anyway. 
     

    Hey man, not complaining, just asking-

    You said fighters lose 1st level bonus feat and all the Armor Training (since it's essentially useless anyway), which is cool, but since we just leveled up, does Elliot gain anything at 7th level?(where armor training 2 normally is). I don't think he got anything at 3rd level either, where armor training 1 usually is..

    If not it's fine, I think the proficiency w/all Firearms keeps it pretty balanced, (not to mention the gun training, which is awesome to have) fighters just get it all at once instead of incrementally, like feats at new levels.

    Like I said, not complaining, just wanted to make sure I'm not missing something you had intended fighters to have.

    Pretty cool campaign so far. Definitely diggin where you're (we're) headed with this!
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    Chris

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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  Chris on Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:53 am

    good point, Dan. It seems like the gun training balances out the initial loss of multiple feats (1st and all the armor feats). I think you should get something to replace the other armor training abilities - something less than a feat, like a "talent" from rogue or a grit power from GS, would seem about the same value.

    just my 2c's
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  whit10 on Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:14 am

    ah, good catch. Let me look it over and come up with something... you make a good point.
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    Arcturus2

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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  Arcturus2 on Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:55 am

    Cool man. I'm not really familiar enough with witches, inquisitors, rogue/rangers and ninja/monks to know exactly how they progress, but my guy feels to me like he's pretty well balanced with everyone at this point..

    I think you did a pretty solid job rebuilding the fighter class, well thought out and plays well.

    I personally agree with Chris, either leave it as it, is or toss in a little perk from rogue or gunslinger, something less than a feat.
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  navyik on Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:17 pm

    Hey, did y'all see the advanced class guide stuff in the prd? There's no link in the table of contents, but if you search for the classes, they are there!
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  Chris on Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:19 pm

    navyik wrote:Hey, did y'all see the advanced class guide stuff in the prd?  There's no link in the table of contents, but if you search for the classes, they are there!

    yeah, it just showed up about a week ago. some interesting stuff, but just more book-spam honestly. all the "new" classes are just multi-class combos like Slayer = thief + ranger, hunter = ranger + druid, etc etc
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  navyik on Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:36 pm

    Yes, but they are quite a bit like the multiclasses I typically try to make. I am going to re-do my last level-up!
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  Chris on Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:45 pm

    navyik wrote:Yes, but they are quite a bit like the multiclasses I typically try to make.  I am going to re-do my last level-up!

    cool! I am glad they work for you. I looked at Slayer (thief\ranger) but I like staying mostly thief with just a splash of ranger
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  navyik on Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:59 pm

    Honestly, these classes are quite credible in an industrial world campaign.
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  Robyo on Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:14 am

    Also, if you don't want to pick up a full level in a hybrid class, there's a bunch of new archetypes that give many of the same abilities to core classes. Also new feats and spells (of course).

    I'm looking at Brawler and Arcanist, but will probably just stick with another level in witch.
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  whit10 on Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:49 pm

    For now, I'd rather not have anything from the Advanced Class Guide please. I haven't had any chance to look through it yet. If you something that your heart is really set on, run it by me. There's already a million classes and archetypes to choose from (and Racial mods), IMHO.


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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  Chris on Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:10 am

    whit10 wrote:Dan, the more I think about it, the more I want to substitute Uncanny Dodge for the loss of Armor Training 2, 3 and 4 (you actually don't lose AT 1, I might not have been clear)

    thoughts?  (I welcome any opinion on this if anyone has one)

    Evil or Very Mad Rogues in your world think that is a bunch of crap!    lol!

    seriously though, that is a special ability that is unique to 2-3 classes.  you can't ever buy that with Feats or anything, imo, it should remain the providence of Rogues, Monks and Rangers.


    whit10 wrote:fighters... completely changed.  IF you want to play a normal, medieval style fighter, go ahead (though I can't imagine why).  If, however, you want to play a modern fighter, you will play the Soldier Archetype that I'm partially lifting from SW.  You lose all armor and shield proficiency except light armor and you lose the bonus feat at 1st level (you still get one every level thereafter unless you multi-class or something to screw up the progression).  In place of those, you gain proficiency with all gun classes: pistols, shotguns, rifles, light machine guns (tommy-gun anyone?)......  YYou will also get Gun Training (as per the Gunslinger) at 4th level, 8th level, 12th level and 16th level.  You can't use the Grit powers (unless you take Amateur Gunslinger) but you're still almost as good with guns as a Gunslinger. Weapon Training stays as is, Armor Training is lost; light armor doesn't drop movement anyway.

    since you already made fighters kind of like semi-gunslingers, why not just continue in that direction?

    Give them the Feat Amateur Gunslinger in place of armor training 2 & 3, then give them 1 Deed in place of AT4.  Once they have access to AGS feat, they could spend their Fighter feats to buy extra Grit powers or extra Grit, if they so choose.
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  whit10 on Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:27 am

    Uncanny Dodge isn't as exclusive as you think it is but you make a good point Chris,  let me think about it (Amateur GS is kinda useless when you look at it)
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  Chris on Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:51 am

    I agree about amateur gs feat, but armor training is also worthless, esp in this setting, so anything is better. I don't really care, I just don't want every yahoo with 1-2 lvls of fighter to be immune to a rogue's main ability. the reality of this game is that we are going to be facing a lot of gun-toting human(oid)s probably with fighter levels

    how else can you acquire Uncanny Dodge? I wasn't aware of any other way to get it scratch
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  whit10 on Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:45 pm

    I was meaning that it didn't kick in until 7th level for the Soldier, sorry, I wasn't clear.

    Barbarians, Rogues and Ninjas get Uncanny Dodge. Gunslingers get it at 15th level (ok, that's pretty high level)

    My point is that it's not all THAT exclusive. But I still see your point. My reasoning was that a veteran soldier would be harder to sneak up on or catch off guard. I never said that I was actually correct in my reasoning. lol
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    Re: World and Stats page

    Post  Arcturus2 on Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:29 pm

    Sorry, been away for a couple days- I see a lot has happened..

    I'm back up to speed now, Elliot's % rolls are 89, 45, 18.

    Since he's broke anyway he won't be buying anything, but if we can keep Rashid on good terms, he'd like to come back after some profitable adventuring.

    Josh- copy re: SW, I'll start trying to get up to speed.

    I can see the argument both ways regarding uncanny dodge, standing by for a final decision.

    My .02 cents on this issue is that it's actually pretty available to a lot of classes- just a cursory look shows variations available for ninja, barbarian, Alchemist, and of course the Gunslinger version that costs grit.. to me, giving the Soldier (cuz it's not really even fighter class anymore) class an uncanny dodge seems legit. Elliot would only be getting the base ability when everyone else who has it is already on improved version, so there's a 4-8 level lag behind there.

    Since it's my character it doesn't seem fair for me to push for it, so it's up to the wisdom of the GM and the group. Standing by.
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    New class discussion

    Post  Arcturus2 on Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:48 pm

    Oh, and re: the class guide... Some things are cool, but really nothing we couldn't crunch anyway with existing classes.. and then there's the fighter Martial master Archetype, which IMHO is ridiculously overpowered.

    From the class guide:

    FIGHTER

    Fighters are often seen as lacking versatility beyond their weapons and armor, but sometimes they manifest surprising abilities.

    Martial Master (Archetype)

    There are those who learn the fighting arts though countless hours of repetition and training, while others seem to pick up new stances and forms as if they were born to them.

    . Martial Flexibility (Ex): At 5th level, the martial master can use a move action to gain the benefit of a combat feat he doesn't possess. This effect lasts for 1 minute. The martial master must otherwise meet all the feat's prerequisites. He can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + 1/2 his fighter level.

    The martial master can use this ability again before the duration expires in order to replace the previous combat feat with another choice. If a combat feat has a daily use limitation (such as Stunning Fist), any uses of that combat feat while using this ability count toward that feat's daily limit. At later levels, when he gains multiple feats through this ability, the martial master can use those feats to meet the prerequisites of other feats he gains with this ability. Doing so means he cannot replace a feat currently fulfilling another's prerequisite without also replacing those feats that require it. Each individual feat selected counts toward his daily uses of this ability.

    At 9th level, a martial master can use this ability to gain the benefit of two combat feats at the same time. He can select one feat as a swift action or two feats as a move action.

    At 14th level, a martial master can use this ability to gain the benefit of three combat feats at the same time. He can select one feat as a free action, two feats as a swift action, or three feats as a move action.

    At 17th level, a martial master can use this ability to gain the benefit of one combat feat as an immediate action or three combat feats as a swift action.

    At 20th level, a martial master can use this ability to gain the benefit of any number of combat feats as a swift action.

    This ability replaces weapon training and weapon mastery.


    So basically at mid level and up, a fighter can rotate in combat feats at will. I think we should probably avoid the class guide for the time being, I think it needs to be thoroughly vetted before we use it..

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