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    huh?

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    navyik

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    huh?

    Post  navyik on Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:17 pm

    What do I do?
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    Chris

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    Re: huh?

    Post  Chris on Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:31 pm

    navyik wrote:What do I do?

    it's like Zen, all the pages are blank

    GO!
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    MAS
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    Re: huh?

    Post  MAS on Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:50 pm

    HAHA!

    Read through the emails first, that will give you idea what weve been discussing. Ill get more solid info up on this over the next few days.
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    Robyo

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    Re: huh?

    Post  Robyo on Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:52 pm

    I read the email. It does looks interesting. I think it's a cool concept, but I'm pretty sure I don't have time to stat-up epic level guys for just gladiator battles.

    Prefer story over combat... and quest vs PVP... it's just personal preference. Lots of people do gaming for different reasons.


    And I saw Pacific Rim... it sucks big time. Sorry. Yeah, it's visually stunning, but the story is mind-numbing. Plus, I had really been looking forward to it, since I respect Guillermo del Toro as a film-maker. He really sold out on this one.

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    navyik

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    Re: huh?

    Post  navyik on Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:25 pm

    Can I use rules for custom generating magic items?
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    navyik

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    Re: huh?

    Post  navyik on Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:25 pm

    BTW. I'm IN!
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    MAS
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    Re: huh?

    Post  MAS on Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:35 pm

    Robyo wrote:I read the email. It does looks interesting. I think it's a cool concept, but I'm pretty sure I don't have time to stat-up epic level guys for just gladiator battles.

    Prefer story over combat... and quest vs PVP... it's just personal preference. Lots of people do gaming for different reasons.


    And I saw Pacific Rim... it sucks big time. Sorry. Yeah, it's visually stunning, but the story is mind-numbing. Plus, I had really been looking forward to it, since I respect Guillermo del Toro as a film-maker. He really sold out on this one.


    Yeah - I agree about Pac Rim = I only watched it for the visuals!

    Rob - Just to be clear - this isnt PvP. Its a story driven series of encounters. Once I get everything up on the forum it will make more sense. Your welcome to join at any time if you like.

    We were talking about doing PvP as a possible side project, though.
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    Chris

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    Re: huh?

    Post  Chris on Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:27 pm

    MAS wrote:
    We were talking about doing PvP as a possible side project, though.

    this will have PvP with the OPFOR concept of a human, non-player non-GM controlling the NPC side.

    all are welcome, but it's ok if not all want to do it or have time for it as well  sunny 
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    MAS
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    Re: huh?

    Post  MAS on Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:54 pm

    Chris wrote:
    MAS wrote:
    We were talking about doing PvP as a possible side project, though.

    this will have PvP with the OPFOR concept of a human, non-player non-GM controlling the NPC side.

    all are welcome, but it's ok if not all want to do it or have time for it as well  sunny 

    Thanks man I forgot to clarify that -
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    Chris

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    Re: huh?

    Post  Chris on Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:24 pm

    Question about magic items:

    Can a specific named weapon be transmuted to a different weapon type, assuming there is no specific restrictions?

    Restriction example: Mace of Disruption could only be transmuted to another bludgeoning wpn, not a bladed\piercing wpn.

    ie

    Can a "Sword of Subtlety" be transmuted into a "Dagger of Subtlty"?   at what additional cost, if any?

    Sword of Subtlety

    Aura moderate illusion; CL 7th

    Slot none; Price 22,310 gp; Weight 2 lbs.

    DESCRIPTION

    A +1 short sword with a thin, dull gray blade, this weapon provides a +4 bonus on its wielder's attack and damage rolls when he is making a sneak attack with it.

    Construction

    Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, blur; Cost 11,310 gp
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    Chris

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    Re: huh?

    Post  Chris on Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:03 pm

    Also, question about sequencing of defensive effects.....

    let's say I had 3 defensive magic items that all could possibly protect me from a Magic Missle spell (just an example)

    Brooch of Shielding - absorbs 101 pts of MM damage

    Mantle of Spell Resistence - grants SR 21

    Rod of Absorption - absorbs 50 lvls of spells


    In what order are the defensive capabilities resolved?  

    In other words.....  would the Rod waste lvls of absorption on the MM when something else, like SR or a specific defense like Shielding could stop the spell before it needed to be absorbed?

    I would hope that it would either be player's choice or specific -> general defense, with absorption only happening if the spell got past everything else first.
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    Chris

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    Re: huh?

    Post  Chris on Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:32 pm

    and what about named specific magic weapons - how do you determine their (+X) value?

    is just by price?
    +1 costs 2000
    +2 costs 8000
    +3 costs 18,000
    +5 costs 50,000


    for example:

    Bloodletting Kukri

    Price 6,308 gp; Aura faint necromancy; CL 5th; Weight 2 lbs.

    On a successful critical hit, this +1 kukri deals 2 points of bleed damage, which stacks with any bleed damage already caused by the attack. Each time the wielder strikes a blow that deals bleed damage with this weapon, he gains temporary hit points equal to the amount of bleed damage dealt. No temporary hit points are gained if the target was already bleeding, even for a lesser amount. Temporary hit points bestowed by the bloodletting kukri last for 1 minute.


    would this be a +2 equivalent, because it costs more than a +1, but less than a +3?

    and this weapon we could not even buy, though we could afford it?

    Bloodthirst Dagger

    Price 60,802 gp; Aura moderate evocation; CL 10th; Weight 1 lb.

    The blade of this +2 wounding dagger is brightly polished. Even when drenched in a victim's blood, it appears clean and dry moments later, as though it has been newly cleaned.

    A bloodthirst dagger rewards its wielder most when used relentlessly against a single target. When attacking a creature that is still bleeding from the bloodthirst dagger's wounding property, the dagger deals an additional +1 point of damage against the target for each bleeding wound the creature possesses (maximum +10). Whenever the wielder of bloodthirst confirms a critical hit with the weapon, she can choose to deal 1d6 points of additional damage for each still-bleeding wound the target possesses (maximum +5d6 damage). This additional damage is not multiplied by the critical hit, but is in addition to the damage normally added for bleeding wounds. Dealing this damage immediately heals all bleeding wounds possessed by the wielder.

    because at 60,802 it costs more than the +5 hard cap



    pt 2 - could I pay the difference (+43,700) to bring that Kukri up to a +5 equivalent, by adding say another +3 (+4 total) enchantment or some other effect (like +1 and Wounding)?
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    MAS
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    Re: huh?

    Post  MAS on Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:53 pm

    I'll take a look through this tomorrow and get you some answers by COB.
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    whit10

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    Re: huh?

    Post  whit10 on Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:10 pm

    Chris, I'm not sure on the Rod of Absorption vs the Broach but the Magic Resistance goes first. If it gets through that, I think the Rod only goes if you wish it? Not certain.

    As for weapons.... it's all based on what the weapon does. You can have a +1 Flaming Burst Longsword and it costs the same as any +3 weapon. It's more about what the powers are for comparison. It's why you can't have a weapon that is any better than +5 and Vorpal ( +5 power)... you can't add anything else on to it (with very few exceptions)

    Where did those weapons come from exactly? Can't find 'em in the Core book or APG
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    Chris

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    Re: huh?

    Post  Chris on Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:48 am

    whit10 wrote:Chris, I'm not sure on the Rod of Absorption vs the Broach but the Magic Resistance goes first.  If it gets through that, I think the Rod only goes if you wish it?  Not certain.

    As for weapons.... it's all based on what the weapon does.  You can have a +1 Flaming Burst Longsword and it costs the same as any +3 weapon.  It's more about what the powers are for comparison.  It's why you can't have a weapon that is any better than +5 and Vorpal ( +5 power)... you can't add anything else on to it (with very few exceptions)

    Where did those weapons come from exactly?  Can't find 'em in the Core book or APG

    if not those 2, then Ult combat, Ult magic or Ult EQ.

    I understand the +5 cap concept, but that doesn't answer the question of taking a named item, with a random price and trying to guess how many +s it has or know how much some wizard\cleric would charge to give it another +1, assuming it had room. A weapon can be +5 and then have other powers that add up to +10, but Matt capped us at +5 total (If I understand correctly)
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    navyik

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    Re: huh?

    Post  navyik on Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:45 am

    Matt, I need your DM interpretation of the celestial template as applied by the planar wild shape Feat for a 16 hit die character shaping into a huge direbear. Should I apply MY cr or just a regular direbear? (There would be little value in doing it if regular). Should I apply my hit dice or just a regular dire bear?
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    whit10

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    Re: huh?

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:02 pm

    Matt capped us at +5 for items?  Why?

    I did not know that and must protest.  Strongly

    ... as for the named items, I don't know man. I've noticed the same price discrepancy, I usually just avoid those weapons or just go with what it says they cost under the description.
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    navyik

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    Re: huh?

    Post  navyik on Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:10 pm

    whit10 wrote:Matt capped us at +5 for items?  Why?

    I did not know that and must protest.  Strongly

    ... as for the named items, I don't know man.  I've noticed the same price discrepancy, I usually just avoid those weapons or just go with what it says they cost under the description.

    I was looking for that but can't find it.
    I suppose he may want to be able to reward us with upgrade magic items.
    Maybe they are just talking about the system's limit on +values of special powers and On basic enhancement bonus?
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    Chris

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    Re: huh?

    Post  Chris on Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:22 pm

    navyik wrote:
    whit10 wrote:Matt capped us at +5 for items?  Why?

    I did not know that and must protest.  Strongly

    ... as for the named items, I don't know man.  I've noticed the same price discrepancy, I usually just avoid those weapons or just go with what it says they cost under the description.

    I was looking for that but can't find it.
    I suppose he may want to be able to reward us with upgrade magic items.
    Maybe they are just talking about the system's limit on +values of special powers and On basic enhancement bonus?

    I think it was an email, not a forum post.

    I think you are missing my point on named items.... the listed price is fine.  my question is how to upgrade them?

    ie a cool, low level item, like +1 Bloodletting Kukri is 6,000.  It is +1 with a couple minor effects.  But it costs less than a +2 overall item.  I am just trying to get a ruling that says, I can pay the difference and upgrade it to a +3 Bloodletting Kukri by raising the price to 32,000.


    BTW - I posted a rough draft of my rogue, if you guys want to check it out.
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    whit10

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    Re: huh?

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:30 pm

    Ok, I finally found the description.

    the named items are weird that way, I think the funky cost has to do with the spells involved in construction. Speaking personally, I think if you just added the cost of additional pluses or powers the way items are normally constructed, it should not be an issue.

    Matt's call of course.

    Matt, I'll make my one argument for us to be allowed to buy whatever we can afford. Since I'm going to assume that you're barring Artifacts (which I would totally agree with) I think it's not really a big deal to allow +whatever in weapons and armor since whatever is spent on that, isn't spent on other items. Now, I can see you maybe saying "no +10 items" or something like that.

    Just wanted to make the argument
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    navyik

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    Re: huh?

    Post  navyik on Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:40 pm

    I still can't find it: +5 total cap on weapons only?
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    Re: huh?

    Post  Chris on Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:45 pm

    here is the email, maybe only Josh and I got it

    +5

    Any race from the PF race guide.

    Choose whatever magic you want, GM reserves right to veto.

    Also, your question about writing/determining  the background of your material plane? Start a thread and build as much as you please! Separate from your character thread, please.


    On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 9:18 PM, <surebritestmbt@aol.com> wrote:

       any limit on the number of +s on an item?

       any other limits on items?

       any races from the PF race guide?
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    navyik

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    Re: huh?

    Post  navyik on Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:51 pm

    K thanks.
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    whit10

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    Re: huh?

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:52 pm

    Ah... my argument still stands though. Especially since a Magus or Paladin can empower their weapons with abilities that no one else can use. Seems more fair IMO.
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    Re: huh?

    Post  Chris on Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:56 pm

    whit10 wrote:Ah... my argument still stands though.  Especially since a Magus or Paladin can empower their weapons with abilities that no one else can use.  Seems more fair IMO.

    not limited to them, any spellcaster could use the spell (usually only a 3rd) Grt Magic Wpn on a +1 flaming burst toothbrush and turn it into a +4 version

    but that is an advantage of a caster, I suppose
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    Re: huh?

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:08 pm

    Yep, forgot that one.

    My point is, a pally or Magus can have much better weapons than say, my guy. I don't think that's particularly fair as they also get spells, healing, save bonuses, etc.
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    Re: huh?

    Post  navyik on Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:29 pm

    You can do things they can't do.
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    whit10

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    Re: huh?

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:18 pm

    Yes, but they're not really equivalent.  

    And the overall cap is +10, no matter what the powers are. This includes class powers.
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    Chris

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    Re: huh?

    Post  Chris on Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:30 pm

    whit10 wrote:Yes, but they're not really equivalent.  

    And the overall cap is +10, no matter what the powers are.  This includes class powers.

    just cuz I like to argue.... they are equivalent, just different.

    A fighter gets wpn specialization, improved wpn spec, wpn focus, imp focus, etc. Those are the equivalent of a buff spell that grants bonuses, like Divine Favor for example.

    The balance is the fighter has full time buffs, that are slightly smaller and doesn't need to spend actions 'buffing up' like your Jedi does. A paladin\cleric\magus\Jedi etc can get bigger #s, but it takes time and spells (resources).

    Any item has a max +10, like you said, so a character that uses a spell to buff their wpn, runs into that +10 cap sooner than a fighter who has his bonuses on himself (as feats).
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    Re: huh?

    Post  MAS on Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:33 pm

    Ok - Ill try to catch up to all the questions here.


    Equipment = Anything you can afford within the 316K gp limit, as Josh said "the overall cap is +10, no matter what the powers are. This includes class powers". No artifacts. Subject to final GM approval.

    "Can a "Sword of Subtlety" be transmuted into a "Dagger of Subtlty"? at what additional cost, if any?" =
    No problem, I can see something like that being applicable to any weapon. No additional cost unless the base weapon requires it.

    "sequencing of defensive effects....." = player's choice.

    "celestial template as applied by the planar wild shape Feat for a 16 hit die character shaping into a huge direbear. Should I apply MY cr or just a regular direbear" = Your character's CR/HD.

    Let me know if I missed something!


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    Re: huh?

    Post  MAS on Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:43 pm

    The party is looking pretty damn tough so far...if not a bit light on spell and healing capability.


    Ill have the "lore" section fleshed out today, which will make things a bit clearer. After you see that, feel free to do a quick backstory/homeworld development thread, which can be as detailed or short as you like.
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    Re: huh?

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:04 pm

    yeah... frankly, we'll be dead rather quickly if it's more than one hard fight in a day and any amount of bad luck or dice.

    I have a Magus built (mostly) but he's just a spell using, single weapon version of the fighter, to be honest.

    I've played Paladin's many times before and played one to this exact level in Charleston.  I could easily play one again but, frankly, am a bit bored with them.

    Anybody wanna weigh in on this?

    ... after thinking about it for a few minutes. I'm going to make up a Dwarf (or Aasimar?) war cleric at some point too, just in case Rob decides to sit this out or play a character similar to the killers we've all posted.
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    Re: huh?

    Post  MAS on Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:06 pm

    If you want to build it, you guys can "share play" of the cleric so that there is a 4 PC party...
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    Re: huh?

    Post  navyik on Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:26 pm

    I can build a healbot if y'all want a 4th.
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    Re: huh?

    Post  Chris on Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:37 pm

    I don't care, either way. Josh and I can use any scroll\wand\item that we buy or find to cover healing, but a buffing and healing bot is fine too.

    If we make it Mythic Tier 2 we heal really fast out of combat anyways.

    thanks for the rule updates, mr gm
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    Re: huh?

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:38 pm

    Thanks for the rulings Matt...

    Where are you on Item Creation Feats for Wizards and other spell casters? If someone takes one, can they pay half the cost for magic items (subject to approval) that they would normally be able to construct (as per the normal construction cost)?

    And, since I just thought of it, where are you at on the taking and use of the Leadership Feat?
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    Re: huh?

    Post  Chris on Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:58 pm

    MAS wrote:
    Ill have the "lore" section fleshed out today, which will make things a bit clearer. After you see that, feel free to do a quick backstory/homeworld development thread, which can be as detailed or short as you like.

    Cool start on the Lore, kind of a cross between Ancient Greek and Tolkien with Smentapocalypse.

    I would vote "no" for Leadership, at least as I understand it, WE are the champions of the 1000s worlds, not us and a train of cohorts. We are Superman, not Batman and Robin.
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    Re: huh?

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:16 pm

    Chris, did you and I swap souls?

    Leadership takes care of the heal-bot problem. I think it's advisable, especially if it's only three of us.

    But, on a different note: Matt, what's your view of Gunslingers? Just out of curiosity
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    Re: huh?

    Post  MAS on Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:28 pm

    Go ahead and play one! I think guns fit into fantasy just fine....
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    Re: huh?

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:07 pm

    Only if they were allowed to use advanced Firearms  (hell, by that level, they should be able to make the damned things)

    Did you see my earlier post about Item Creation and what-not?
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    Re: huh?

    Post  Chris on Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:49 pm

    whit10 wrote:Chris, did you and I swap souls?

    Leadership takes care of the heal-bot problem.  I think it's advisable, especially if it's only three of us.

    Are you suddenly changing diapers?

    Maybe Matt can chime in, but I guess I understood this as "story-driven encounters", not like a normal D&D, dungeon crawl. I thought the idea was to use the story to set up epic level encounters, but not really to be a normal story, as we have been playing them.

    Either way, I still vote "no" on leadership, I have voiced my dislike of that Feat many times and it hasn't changed. I think it is unbalanced and overpowered. It is 1000% more powerful than any other single feat.

    But I am not the only player, so if everyone else votes for Leadership, I will certainly drop 1 meager feat and have another 14th lvl character to control.
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    Re: huh?

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:31 pm

    To be fair Chris, I agree with you on it being over powered. One, in any world I would run, any cohort would also start with the tier of points the next step down or even more on Ability points at creation. They should probably even be maxed out at 3 or 4 levels below the Character's current level too.

    I actually kind of like the way SW handles it vs. this system.

    Frankly, if we don't have one, I guess we don't have one.... just don't cry to me when you need a medic due to a curse, a Baleful Polymorph (remember that one Chris?) or some horrid freakin' disease attack or whatever that we are liable to face.

    That goddamned Bears game made me actually look into a Gunslinger or a Aasimar War Cleric, oddly enough.
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    Re: huh?

    Post  navyik on Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:33 pm

    Leadership is a lot of work and I think the intent is to focus On the mythic path growth. I'm fine if josh wants a cohort, but I would draw the line there.
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    Re: huh?

    Post  MAS on Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:36 am

    I dont think leadership fits the campaign concept very well. I'd prefer it if someone just made a character to fill that roll and rounded out the party. Between the 3 of you, you ought to be able to control one extra PC. Or not, your choice.

    Sounds like the bulk of the participants would prefer to exclude leadership, including myself. SOLD. no leadership.

    I am not opposed to "cowboy/civil war/Napoleonic era" level advanced firearms, no automatics.


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    Re: huh?

    Post  MAS on Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:37 am

    Also - this week is going to be rough, between the holidays and having to get Nic's mom moved by the 30th, I am on the run starting tomorrow. I'll add what I can, when I can, but its likely to be a slow process.

    best!
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    Re: huh?

    Post  Chris on Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:56 pm

    MAS wrote:Also - this week is going to be rough, between the holidays and having to get Nic's mom moved by the 30th, I am on the run starting tomorrow. I'll add what I can, when I can, but its likely to be a slow process.

    best!

    yeah, the holiday week is rough, but I would really like to finish SW before we start something else in earnest. The pace in SW has already tailed off just from talking about this game.
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    Re: huh?

    Post  whit10 on Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:33 pm

    Hey man, I got three characters mostly made up, stayed on point with SW, got drunk, went shopping and also had time to exercise and watch the Bears piss themselves last night... slackers. lol
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    Re: huh?

    Post  navyik on Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:41 pm

    Are we rolling hit points?
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    Re: huh?

    Post  Chris on Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:04 pm

    navyik wrote:Are we rolling hit points?



    These aren't the dice you are looking for.  We get max hit points.  Move along.
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    Re: huh?

    Post  navyik on Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:07 pm

    Chris wrote:
    navyik wrote:Are we rolling hit points?



    These aren't the dice you are looking for.  We get max hit points.  Move along.

    Nice, obi-wan...

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