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    Rules and concept discussion

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    Chirs2

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  Chirs2 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:18 am

    Arcturus wrote:
    I'm going to go with Mythic Vital Strike I think. I did 10 test rolls, and with Greater Vital Strike and my primary weapon I'm averaging around 200 points of damage per strike. Double that for a Critical. If I'm using my scabbard of keen edges, my crit range on my main weapon is 16-20 so that's solid.


    That is an absolutely BRUTAL amount of damage, nice!

    But just to make sure you are understanding it correctly - you give up all your other attacks in that round and only make a single attack.  So using Vital Strike, you get only that 1 attack, not 4 attacks.  It specifically says

    Greater Vital Strike (Combat)

    You can make a single attack that deals incredible damage.

    Prerequisites: Improved Vital Strike, Vital Strike, base attack bonus +16.

    Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon's damage dice for the attack four times and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.


    so you cannot make a Full Round Attack (multiple attacks).  you are basically putting all your eggs in 1 basket and taking 1 swing at your highest BAB, instead of 4 swings at BAB\-5\-10\-15.  It makes logical sense to do, 4 swings (x4 damage) at your best chance to hit.

    In reality, you will miss that roll sometimes though and get 0 damage, whereas if you roll 4 times, you have a better chance to always do "some" damage and with your Crit feats - you have 4 chances to roll a crit, compared to 1 chance.

    I am not saying it is a bad idea, I just want to make sure you understand the mechanics of it before you commit all your feats and your mythic feat to that concept.
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    Arcturus

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  Arcturus on Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:06 pm

    Chirs2quote= wrote:
    I'm going to go with Mythic Vital Strike I think. I did 10 test rolls, and with Greater Vital Strike and my primary weapon I'm averaging around 200 points of damage per strike. Double that for a Critical. If I'm using my scabbard of keen edges, my crit range on my main weapon is 16-20 so that's solid.


    That is an absolutely BRUTAL amount of damage, nice!

    But just to make sure you are understanding it correctly - you give up all your other attacks in that round and only make a single attack.  So using Vital Strike, you get only that 1 attack, not 4 attacks.  It specifically says

    Greater Vital Strike (Combat)

    You can make a single attack that deals incredible damage.

    Prerequisites: Improved Vital Strike, Vital Strike, base attack bonus +16.

    Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon's damage dice for the attack four times and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.


    so you cannot make a Full Round Attack (multiple attacks).  you are basically putting all your eggs in 1 basket and taking 1 swing at your highest BAB, instead of 4 swings at BAB\-5\-10\-15.  It makes logical sense to do, 4 swings (x4 damage) at your best chance to hit.

    In reality, you will miss that roll sometimes though and get 0 damage, whereas if you roll 4 times, you have a better chance to always do "some" damage and with your Crit feats - you have 4 chances to roll a crit, compared to 1 chance.

    I am not saying it is a bad idea, I just want to make sure you understand the mechanics of it before you commit all your feats and your mythic feat to that concept.[/quote]

    Yeah, I think I understand the mechanics of it. It's not the sort of feat I'll use all the time, but I feel it's useful. Mythic vital strike basically just multiplies my bonus damage by the number of attack dice I roll and that's where the huge damage comes from.

    I figured I could use it when boosted either magically or through other attack bonuses (such as flanking) where my odds of hitting go way up. Also I have that mythic surge available if we feel I'm in danger of wasting an attack.


     My main weapon is 2d6+23 (+6 cold) so even without the vital strike I'm hitting solid.

    I have Great Cleave, so I basically get a bonus shot at any adjacent enemy after a hit as well. I don't think I can use another feat on the same turn I'm using a vital strike, but not entirely clear on the mechanics of stacking feats. That's useful when I'm taking my normal full attack, which all have decent '+to hit' bonus.

    High dex gives me 6 AoO/rnd at full BAB that I can use flat footed.

    Boots of speed haste me 10 rnd/day so extra attack at full BAB there.

    Mobility / Spring Attack / Champion Strike basically let me run up on a MOFO and bust em one at full BAB before they can react.

    I'm swinging with +33/28/23/18 so that's pretty solid I think. At least the first two attacks are. So, do you think this is workable or would you recommend a combat feat rebuild before we get down in it?


    Last edited by Arcturus on Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Chirs2

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  Chirs2 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:26 pm

    Sounds good.  There are lots of times when you might only get 1 attack - like you charge to engage an enemy, might as well take 1 big swing.  or like you said, if you have some "to hit" bonuses or whatever.

    I have to be honest..... I never thought of combing Cleave with Vital Strike.  But reading the rules, I think it would actually work together.

    Cleave just says that you take 1 attack at your highest BAB and IF that attack hits, you can continue to swing at adjacent targets.

    Vital Strike (and all its variants) also say "as part of an attack action", so not part of a Full Round Attack, but it doesn't state any other restrictions.  

    That is CRAZY powerful, you can make multiple Vital Strikes, assuming that there are legal Cleave targets (adjacent targets and you hit).

     cheers  nicely crunched!!
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    Arcturus

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  Arcturus on Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:31 pm

    Chirs2 wrote:Sounds good.  There are lots of times when you might only get 1 attack - like you charge to engage an enemy, might as well take 1 big swing.  or like you said, if you have some "to hit" bonuses or whatever.

    I have to be honest..... I never thought of combing Cleave with Vital Strike.  But reading the rules, I think it would actually work together.

    Cleave just says that you take 1 attack at your highest BAB and IF that attack hits, you can continue to swing at adjacent targets.

    Vital Strike (and all its variants) also say "as part of an attack action", so not part of a Full Round Attack, but it doesn't state any other restrictions.  

    That is CRAZY powerful, you can make multiple Vital Strikes, assuming that there are legal Cleave targets (adjacent targets and you hit).

     cheers  nicely crunched!!

    Thanks! ''Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds an acorn''.. afro 

    My other Feats, high dex, and boots of haste also give me some solid full BAB attack opportunities that should help.
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    Chirs2

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  Chirs2 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:46 pm

    Arcturus wrote:
    Thanks! ''Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds an acorn''.. afro 

    My other Feats, high dex, and boots of haste also give me some solid full BAB attack opportunities that should help.

    I can hit you with:

    Heroism, Greater

    School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]; Level bard 5, sorcerer/wizard 6

    Duration 1 min./level

    This spell functions like heroism, except the creature gains a +4 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks, immunity to fear effects, and temporary hit points equal to your caster level (maximum 20).


    but I am hesitant to do a pre-buff on you, since your Will save is so low, you would likely lose it going through the portal. I will be casting Mythic Haste on the group on my first round, so you will get the Haste buff, more speed and an action move action, after we pass the portal.

    I focus on de-buffing the enemies, so that will lower their AC for you as well.
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    Arcturus

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  Arcturus on Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:26 pm

    Chirs2 wrote:
    Arcturus wrote:
    Thanks! ''Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds an acorn''.. afro 

    My other Feats, high dex, and boots of haste also give me some solid full BAB attack opportunities that should help.

    I can hit you with:

    Heroism, Greater

    School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]; Level bard 5, sorcerer/wizard 6

    Duration 1 min./level

    This spell functions like heroism, except the creature gains a +4 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks, immunity to fear effects, and temporary hit points equal to your caster level (maximum 20).


    but I am hesitant to do a pre-buff on you, since your Will save is so low, you would likely lose it going through the portal.  I will be casting Mythic Haste on the group on my first round, so you will get the Haste buff, more speed and an action move action, after we pass the portal.

    I focus on de-buffing the enemies, so that will lower their AC for you as well.

    Sweet. I wouldn't pre-buff me either.
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    whit10

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  whit10 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:17 pm

    Again, why do people need to roll for buffing spells that they haven't cast. wouldn't it be dependent on the caster to keep the spell going?
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    Arcturus

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  Arcturus on Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:23 pm

    whit10 wrote:Again, why do people need to roll for buffing spells that they haven't cast.  wouldn't it be dependent on the caster to keep the spell going?  

    Now that I think about it, I seem to remember you guys arguing this issue. For days. I seem to remember Matt did rule that the caster makes the saves. Maybe I'm wrong.
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    whit10

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  whit10 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:01 pm

    that's what I would think is the logical decision... didn't see if Matt ruled though (might have just missed it)
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    Chirs2

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  Chirs2 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:13 pm

    Arcturus wrote:
    Now that I think about it, I seem to remember you guys arguing this issue. For days.

     lol! that?  that wasn't arguing.... that was just asking enough questions to decide if it was worth arguing about.  We should have been lawyers, the lot of us.... so instead we argue over comma's in D&D  jocolor

    but yes, the GM ruled:

    MAS wrote:
    whit10 wrote:
    Wait, Matt, do we have to roll for buff spells that someone else might cast on us?  (the will save thing)  I would think that would just be for the caster of the spell


    The character "carrying" the buff or effect makes the WILL save to see if the effect survives the portal journey.


    Josh likes beating dead horses
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    Arcturus

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  Arcturus on Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:31 pm

    I was kinda just trying to stir the pot a bit Laughing 
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    Robyo

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  Robyo on Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:34 pm

    whit10 wrote:Again, why do people need to roll for buffing spells that they haven't cast.  wouldn't it be dependent on the caster to keep the spell going?  

    I think that falls under:
    because GM says so  farao 
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    navyik

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  navyik on Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:37 pm

    Robyo wrote:
    whit10 wrote:Again, why do people need to roll for buffing spells that they haven't cast.  wouldn't it be dependent on the caster to keep the spell going?  

    I think that falls under:
    because GM says so  farao 

     cheers 
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    whit10

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  whit10 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:53 pm

    No Chris, I wasn't trying to beat a dead horse, I just wanted clarity.

    .. sorry if some of us don't have the time to waste going through ten fucking million posts to find something.

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    navyik

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  navyik on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:36 pm

    whit10 wrote:No Chris, I wasn't trying to beat a dead horse, I just wanted clarity.  

    .. sorry if some of us don't have the time to waste going through ten fucking million posts to find something.


    Half of them are yours, Josh... tongue 
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    Chirs2

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  Chirs2 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:42 pm

    navyik wrote:
    whit10 wrote:No Chris, I wasn't trying to beat a dead horse, I just wanted clarity.  

    .. sorry if some of us don't have the time to waste going through ten fucking million posts to find something.


    Half of them are yours, Josh... tongue 

    He doesn't remember the ones he wrote either  drunken 
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    navyik

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  navyik on Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:32 pm

    New question. Since a bastard sword is almost a large weapon that requires 2 hands without a feat, and a lance can be used in one hand on horseback, can I make a "transformative" (magic ability) bastard sword that can shift into a lance?
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    MAS
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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  MAS on Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:41 pm

    navyik wrote:New question.  Since a bastard sword is almost a large weapon that requires 2 hands without a feat, and a lance can be used in one hand on horseback, can I make a "transformative" (magic ability) bastard sword that can shift into a lance?

    Sure!
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    navyik

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  navyik on Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:41 pm

    Sweet!
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    whit10

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  whit10 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:55 pm

    Cool idea! Wish I'd thought of it.  Smile 
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    Chirs2

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  Chirs2 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:46 pm

    navyik wrote:New question.  Since a bastard sword is almost a large weapon that requires 2 hands without a feat, and a lance can be used in one hand on horseback, can I make a "transformative" (magic ability) bastard sword that can shift into a lance?

    somebody watches too much Power Rangers  drunken 



    The Transdaggers are the lost weapons of the Galaxy Rangers..... Each Transdagger has five modes of weaponry and are capable transforming into those five weapons to suit the situation or preferred use of a Ranger.

    If we are going this route, I want the Magna Sword

    The Magna Sword is the primary weapon used by the Magna Defender (and later, his successor, Mike Corbett). The sword has the ability to alternate between its default state and a blaster, which is activated by bending the hilt of the sword back and twisting the forked ends to become a trigger and handle.
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    navyik

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  navyik on Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:54 pm

    Chirs2 wrote:
    navyik wrote:New question.  Since a bastard sword is almost a large weapon that requires 2 hands without a feat, and a lance can be used in one hand on horseback, can I make a "transformative" (magic ability) bastard sword that can shift into a lance?

    somebody watches too much Power Rangers  drunken 



    The Transdaggers are the lost weapons of the Galaxy Rangers..... Each Transdagger has five modes of weaponry and are capable transforming into those five weapons to suit the situation or preferred use of a Ranger.

    If we are going this route, I want the Magna Sword

    The Magna Sword is the primary weapon used by the Magna Defender (and later, his successor, Mike Corbett). The sword has the ability to alternate between its default state and a blaster, which is activated by bending the hilt of the sword back and twisting the forked ends to become a trigger and handle.

    Hey man, its in the rules. +10,000 gp cost. But I WOULD like a zaur, now that you mention it...
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    whit10

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  whit10 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:07 am

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    Chris

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  Chris on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:11 am

    It's cool man, but you gotta say "mighty morphing power sword!!" or something when you use it, verbal activation trigger for sure.

    Does Tyranus transform from a cringing parrot into the mighty battle Roc too?
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    navyik

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  navyik on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:14 am

    He's a horse now. The roc was too limiting... Maybe he starts as pinkie pie.
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    whit10

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  whit10 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:38 am

    I know I'm going to regret asking this question but, WTF is a 'pinkie pie'?
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    Chris

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  Chris on Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:07 pm

    navyik wrote:He's a horse now.  The roc was too limiting... Maybe he starts as pinkie pie.

    might I suggest a Pegasus? being limited to the ground is a major disadvantage when (not if) we fight dragons, demons, devils, etc etc etc
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    navyik

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  navyik on Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:27 pm

    If the DM allows, but i was going to use airwalk...
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    whit10

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  whit10 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:14 am

    It doesn't really work the same way as flying though.
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    navyik

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  navyik on Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:52 am

    Ok. Peggy then! ;-)
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    whit10

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    Re: Rules and concept discussion

    Post  whit10 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:34 pm

    They're actually pretty good mounts. My Samurai was going to have one (honestly, it's really up the the GM but a Pally or Sam of that level could easily argue for a young dragon or something even better, IMO anyway)

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