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    SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

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    Chris

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    SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:50 am

    I also need to look at conversions for the Mandalorian cloaking gunship, Rakhu\Tarro's Red Armor, Daxx's "black-light\Ghost-touch" lightsaber, etc.

    all new or re-imagined characters will also get 1 "signature" piece of gear - like the above mentioned.  Since we are using SR rules, there are some great vehicle\drone(droid) rules for Riggers, if someone wants to be more of a dedicated pilot\rigger\droid type guy.

    Magick = Force
    Edge = Force points
    Jedi = mystic adepts or adepts
    riggers = pilots\techies\droid guys
    deckers = no net, no deckers

    limited cyberware, but stats will be incorporated into armor, particularly Mandalorian armor
    high tech gun stats = blasters  (ie light machine guns = rotary blasters, hvy machine guns = hvy repeating blasters, etc)
    lightsaber deflect\redirect = modified Missle Parry
    etc etc, we can look at things case by case as needed


    Last edited by Chris on Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:51 am

    whit10 wrote:If we make a new character, will the be the same "level" as these guys were?  I was just wondering (I know it will work different with SR rules)

    good question!  

    yes, of course.  all characters will be built using the same number of "build points" in SR, so whether it is a re-imagined old character or a totally new one, they will have the same capabilities.

    SR has 3 basic categories for character builds - street (low) level, regular and their equivalent of high level (I read it as about 10th).  We will be using the high-end build points + some Karma (xp pts) to round them out.

    The SR4e rules don't use priority categories, it is just a straight point-buy system.

    check out pg 80 of SR4e - building a shadowrunner
    with 500 build points
    go through the progression of choosing Race (metatype), Qualities, Attributes, Skills and Finishing Touches.  
    note, you can only spend up to half your total BPs on Attributes

    Race\Metatype will have to be a case by case discussion, but I think it should be fairly obvious.  Choose a metatype that fits what the race had for racial features in d20

    Wookie\Whiphid, etc = Troll
    gamorrean, nikto, etc = orc
    rodian, duros, etc = elf

    I will be pretty flexible with race, just find the SW race in the race book that you want and we can go from there to figure out how to realize that idea with SR rules
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:30 pm

    my suggestions is to start with SW - find a race and concept that you want to play, then look at how to make that concept realized with the SR rules (I can help)

    so if you decide you want to play a human street-smart jedi, like Daxx....

    metatype = human
    mystic adept
    pick attributes and skills
    pick some qualities that reflect his time on the streets (guts, will to live and maybe flaw like a mild addiction to alcohol)

    or like the mighty Sharnralkin, force using beast wrestler
    metatype = troll (for the stats)
    adept
    attributes\skills
    qualities that reflect his Wookie-ness (fast healer, toughness and maybe the flaw pacifist)
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    whit10

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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:28 pm

    Chris, I'm just wondering about your math here (and not trying to provoke an argument). 500 points seems a bit weak for an equivalent to 10th level? Just the way it seems when factoring in what it costs for skills, attributes and special powers (or whatever they're called). I'll obviously go with whatever the GM says. Smile


    Just out of curiosity, does anyone else want to play a rather straightforward Jedi? (which Jaxx, more or less was, though somewhat of a rogue)
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    Chris

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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:46 pm

    whit10 wrote:Chris, I'm just wondering about your math here (and not trying to provoke an argument).  500 points seems a bit weak for an equivalent to 10th level?  Just the way it seems when factoring in what it costs for skills, attributes and special powers (or whatever they're called).  I'll obviously go with whatever the GM says. Smile

    yeah, I agree. perhaps I should have explained it differently, but somewhere I read that the high-end was for experienced characters with significant history, sort of at the climax of their careers. maybe that was in 5e scratch

    Chris wrote:
    SR has 3 basic categories for character builds - street (low) level, regular and their equivalent of high level (I read it as about 10th).  We will be using the high-end build points + some Karma (xp pts) to round them out.

    check out SR4e starting at pg 269 for Karma
    you would each get roughly 5-12 karma per "chapter" or in general, per thread from the SW page.

    I kind of want to see how the initial builds turn out, but I would figure somewhere in the neighborhood of 50-100 or so Karma points on top of the 500 pt builds.

    some things look like they are better to buy with BPs and some with Karma, but you guys can figure that stuff out


    Last edited by Chris on Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:55 pm

    ah, didn't see the bit about xps (karma). Gotcha.

    I just got through doing attributes and skills and thought "wow, not much left over at all"
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:58 pm

    whit10 wrote:ah, didn't see the bit about xps (karma).  Gotcha.

    I just got through doing attributes and skills and thought "wow, not much left over at all"

    see the edit above

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    Chris

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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:29 pm

    also - I am in unfamiliar territory here too, so I will listen to player feedback about relative power levels.  it really doesn't matter to me, whatever # of BPs + karma the players use is going to be the base for the enemies as well.

    weak enemies goons - maybe 50-75% build points
    tough enemies - 100% player BPs
    really hard\boss - 150 - 200% BPs

    anyways.... and depending on how many people roll with new characters (or how their previous characters spent their last 3 years), the group does not have to be as Republic-centric as you were before.  you could all roll with more like smugglers, mercs, fringers, etc.  I don't really care either way, since it is sandbox style.
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    whit10

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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:17 am

    Well, this is a rough estimation of what Daxx would look like, I haven't bought Power Point stuff for the adept yet (which is 6 points).  Now, Initiation....?  I would have to argue that a Jedi Knight would also be an initiate?
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    Chris

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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:47 am

    whit10 wrote:Well, this is a rough estimation of what Daxx would look like, I haven't bought Power Point stuff for the adept yet (which is 6 points).  Now, Initiation....?  I would have to argue that a Jedi Knight would also be an initiate?

    how many of your 505pts did you spend?

    I am surprised you didn't take either Missle Parry (for blaster bolts) or Counterspelling (for Dissipate Energy) those are both skills

    he will be a lot more powerful with a full 6 points in Magic!  wow, that must have cost a ton of your BPs to max that out.

    since you bought Mystic Adept.... are you going to buy any spells? if not, you should just go Adept

    I am fine with Initiation, just pay the cost which is 10 + (grade x 3).  this would have to be bought with your Karma and not initial BPs of course.  To me, that would represent a Jedi's progress and could be tied with becoming a Knight, for example.  That makes total sense and allows the Jedi to grow in power as he advances.

    Magic Resistance = Force Defense
    - sure that makes sense, nice grab

    what would Jaxx (??  his name was Daxx, I thought) look like with 100 Karma to spend?
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    whit10

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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:11 am

    whoops, yeah, name is wrong. lol

    Yeah, paying to get the magic rating up sucked but that's where all of their powers come from.

    It seems almost impossible to have similar powers to what he had as a SW created character.

    So, Dissipate Energy is going to be a Counterspell type check now? (I couldn't find the email conversation we had about this)

    Karma spends the same way, yes?
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:21 am

    whit10 wrote:whoops, yeah, name is wrong. lol
    Yeah, paying to get the magic rating up sucked but that's where all of their powers come from.
    It seems almost impossible to have similar powers to what he had as a SW created character.
    So, Dissipate Energy is going to be a Counterspell type check now?  (I couldn't find the email conversation we had about this)
    Karma spends the same way, yes?

    yeah, like I said, some things just don't translate, but hopefully you have other abilities as well.  most of your Jedi "powers" will come from those adept points and\or spells, so you don't have a complete picture yet anyways

    I think we decided that running dissipate like Counterspell (adds dice to soak) was preferable to making it a spell that had to be pre-cast, since counterspelling was a Free reaction ability

    Chris wrote:
    check out SR4e starting at pg 269 for Karma
    you would each get roughly 5-12 karma per "chapter" or in general, per thread from the SW page.  

    I kind of want to see how the initial builds turn out, but I would figure somewhere in the neighborhood of 50-100 or so Karma points on top of the 500 pt builds.

    some things look like they are better to buy with BPs and some with Karma, but you guys can figure that stuff out

    Karma does not spend the same way

    but this is part of the process, I need to see how many BPs\Karma it will take to get the characters "close" to where they were in d20 in terms of capabilities.  I appreciate it that you are taking the time to make some builds and help me figure this out  cheers
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:34 am

    oh, no problem man.  I just wanted to see what he would look like as a SR character.  I'll make some adjustments this morning and see what I come up with

    so... mystical adept is only needed for spells? Can an adept 'heal' themselves? I can't find a power like that... (might just be missing it)
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:41 am

    I like the fact that Agility is used with combat skills for attacks. That makes things so much easier
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    Chris

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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:56 am

    whit10 wrote:oh, no problem man.  I just wanted to see what he would look like as a SR character.  I'll make some adjustments this morning and see what I come up with

    so... mystical adept is only needed for spells?  Can an adept 'heal' themselves?  I can't find a power like that... (might just be missing it)

    I am not 100% familiar with all the abilities, but I think healing is a spell, which is why you might want the mystic adept

    I know Adepts have the heightened attributes, magical reflexes, giant leaps, etc... a lot of jedi-type powers

    you seem to have put a lot of pts in attributes, as if that was your highest priority, which is fine of course, but maybe some of those BPs could be spent on spells or skills, to round him out more the way he was in d20, since you can buy up attributes with magic adept points or spells too

    just a thought
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:23 pm

    I thought about making the attributes a bit lower. The problem is, you can only enhance one ability with Magic points unless you start buying points in a second one.

    I have some adjusting to do and also the incorporation of the Karma points you mentioned
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:38 pm

    wouldn't dropping the Mystical Adept cancel out his ability to do the counter spell thing (dissipate energy)?
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:52 pm

    ...and I just saw that Adepts and magic types can't even take Magic Resistance. oops
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:12 pm

    ok, check this out... he's not finished by a long shot.  But, this is the closest approximation that I can make for now, with a few alterations.  There really isn't anything for the Dissipate Energy as it's just a weird thing to do with teh game Mechanics.  He has a full magic point left for a Sorcery skill, but, if I'm understanding this right, it doesn't really help that much (as it's just a 'spell' of a 1?).  He can't take the Magic Resistance power but he CAN take Spell Resistance as a Adept Power, if that's how you want to work this.

    Initiation is really damned cool BTW cheers
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Arcturus2 on Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:52 pm

    Ok, I'm gonna be totally lost here since I missed the SW campaign (and have never played SW or SR) so it's gonna be a bit before I'm up to speed.. stand by for a lot of questions. Found the SR 4e book on Ebay for 14 bucks, that should be here in a week or so.. what else do I need to know to get a start?
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:11 pm

    Arcturus2 wrote:Ok, I'm gonna be totally lost here since I missed the SW campaign (and have never played SW or SR) so it's gonna be a bit before I'm up to speed.. stand by for a lot of questions. Found the SR 4e book on Ebay for 14 bucks, that should be here in a week or so.. what else do I need to know to get a start?

    read the SW recap thread that I just posted, it is locked from comments, but you will see what has happened so far.

    the story takes place almost 4000 years before the Battle of Yavin when Luke destorys the Death Star. This was the height of the old Sith Empire, before they were defeated by the Republic and the golden age of peace (As Obi Wan told Luke, "for a thousand generations, the jedi were the guardians of peace and justice in the old republic")that followed before the events of Episode 1.

    However, the actions of the PCs, specifically by freeing the Dread Masters and making the Jedi aware of Force Ghosts 4000 years earlier has forever altered the timeline of the universe. (sort of my equivalent of JJ Trek, we are off on our own now). Qui'gonn was the first Jedi force ghost that learned to commune with living Jedi, in the movies.

    You can get the Shadowrun 4e books for free in digital form if you want, but I understand having a hard copy, it is very nice.

    But please feel free to fire away with questions! I haven't played SR since high school and that was 1e, so this is fairly new to me as well and the questions will do me good!

    Josh is working on converting his Jedi, which is really helping me get an idea of relative power level to d20 SW. In d20, the party just turned 9th level, before having a 3 year hiatus
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:18 pm

    whit10 wrote:ok, check this out... he's not finished by a long shot.  But, this is the closest approximation that I can make for now, with a few alterations.  There really isn't anything for the Dissipate Energy as it's just a weird thing to do with teh game Mechanics.  He has a full magic point left for a Sorcery skill, but, if I'm understanding this right, it doesn't really help that much (as it's just a 'spell' of a 1?).  He can't take the Magic Resistance power but he CAN take Spell Resistance as a Adept Power, if that's how you want to work this.

    Initiation is really damned cool BTW cheers

    now that looks much closer to Daxx at lvl 9 to me. what do you think?

    as for spells\sorcery.... I think you can take a higher level of sorcery skill than your magic rating. you roll force of the spell (capped by x2 magic attribute) + sorcery to cast spells. (mind the drain, of course). So I think you could still be moderately effective casting uncontested spells like healing, buffing, etc with a low magic (force) rating and maybe 3-4 in sorcery. I may be forgetting how it works, but I did read it last week scratch

    I think the same thing applies to Counterspell which is a skill, if used for dissipate energy. Just call it dissipate energy, so it isn't confusing, but we will use the counterspell rules, just for that 1 application of dissipating energy attacks. I think you can just buy up whatever skill level you can afford with BPs\Karma.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Arcturus2 on Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:21 pm

    Chris wrote:
    Arcturus2 wrote:Ok, I'm gonna be totally lost here since I missed the SW campaign (and have never played SW or SR) so it's gonna be a bit before I'm up to speed.. stand by for a lot of questions. Found the SR 4e book on Ebay for 14 bucks, that should be here in a week or so.. what else do I need to know to get a start?

    read the SW recap thread that I just posted, it is locked from comments, but you will see what has happened so far.

    the story takes place almost 4000 years before the Battle of Yavin when Luke destorys the Death Star. This was the height of the old Sith Empire, before they were defeated by the Republic and the golden age of peace (As Obi Wan told Luke, "for a thousand generations, the jedi were the guardians of peace and justice in the old republic")that followed before the events of Episode 1.  

    However, the actions of the PCs, specifically by freeing the Dread Masters and making the Jedi aware of Force Ghosts 4000 years earlier has forever altered the timeline of the universe.  (sort of my equivalent of JJ Trek, we are off on our own now).  Qui'gonn was the first Jedi force ghost that learned to commune with living Jedi, in the movies.  

    You can get the Shadowrun 4e books for free in digital form if you want, but I understand having a hard copy, it is very nice.

    But please feel free to fire away with questions!  I haven't played SR since high school and that was 1e, so this is fairly new to me as well and the questions will do me good!

    Josh is working on converting his Jedi, which is really helping me get an idea of relative power level to d20 SW.  In d20, the party just turned 9th level, before having a 3 year hiatus

    Yeah, I started reading the recap thread, it's quite a story. I'll let you know when I get ready for character creation.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:56 pm

    ok, so I take a point from my Magic Power Point Pool and that allows me to have Counterspelling as a skill?

    I don't know that I'm following you here for that part.

    Yeah, he looks much better with the Karma points and high Initiation level
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    MAS
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  MAS on Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:46 pm

    Well, I guess there was a lot of new threads. Didn't see them until they got mentioned in another that I was getting alerts on.

    Hell of a re-cap!!!




    I am still at a loss for character creation in SW, conceptually, everything seems very "done". Thats always been a vibe I get RPing in a well known setting (LOTR as another example).

    Ill likely try to rebuild Tson, but might attempt to specialize him a bit more into a stealth/rouge niche, if that is ok.

    What is the timeline looking like for starting this game?

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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:06 pm

    MAS wrote:Well, I guess there was a lot of new threads. Didn't see them until they got mentioned in another that I was getting alerts on.
    Hell of a re-cap!!!  


    I am still at a loss for character creation in SW, conceptually, everything seems very "done". Thats always been a vibe I get RPing in a well known setting (LOTR as another example).
    Ill likely try to rebuild Tson, but might attempt to specialize him a bit more into a stealth/rouge niche, if that is ok.
    What is the timeline looking like for starting this game?

    timeline to start is whenever Josh finishes WoD and we get all characters remade. I would guess not until Dec or Jan, in all honesty. I just wanted to let people get started with the 4e\5e conversions.

    I am sorry you feel that way about SW. I think the same could be said for any D&D game.... haven't we really done it all already? That being said, try to think of something that you haven't seen in the movies for SW. Off the top of my head:

    a young repentant Sith that is struggling to be good (instead of the over-used fallen Jedi). a light grey-side (morality) person who was trained as a Sith

    we haven't seen a true soldier\spec forces character in SW. closest thing might be Rakhu, but he is more tracker\ranger with a big gun. T'son could fill this role, re-imagined a bit, like you were talking about

    a retired imperial officer\soldier, disillusioned with the lies of the Sith and the constant war

    any kind of techie as a PC, since the droids often fill that role

    speaking of which.... how about a droid PC? what about a data-esque droid that is just so old it has gained true sentience and free thought. maybe it never got it's memory wiped (which is why that is done in SW, btw). droids develop errors in the personality programming and start thinking for themselves. IG-88 is an example of an assassin droid that gained sentience, though his backstory was only told through the EU (expanded universe).

    what about a truly alien force user? (rob mentioned this) but think about how an alien mystic would struggle in the SW universe, that would be good roleplaying

    I hope that inspires you to create something unique!
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:41 pm

    don't steal my ideas!!! Very Happy

    Actually, this would be a time to re-imagine the Predator alien (I'm sure Chris remembers that one).

    I don't plan on playing a straightforward Jedi though... too restrictive. If I go with something similar to Daxx, it will likely be a guy more like that semi-baddie that we fought that was basically neutral?

    Or I'll just come up with something a bit more unique.... are we sticking with the normal run of aliens? Will they have similar benefits to Orcs or whatever from the SR book?
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:45 pm

    whit10 wrote:
    Or I'll just come up with something a bit more unique....  are we sticking with the normal run of aliens?  Will they have similar benefits to Orcs or whatever from the SR book?

    any races from SW book are fine
    any new-custom races, just run it by me, but probably fine
    any race will use meta-race rules from SR 4e (where the bonuses go can be changed, but look at the cost for elves, dwarves, orcs, trolls). the more bonuses your new race gets, the more Build Points it costs, pretty straightforward. stay within the parameters of nothing more modified than a troll at 40 BPs
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:50 pm

    as far as concepts go....

    it is up to the party how light-grey-dark you all want to be. remember, I offered to run a Sith-side story from the beginning, but the party voted for good guys. I don't care what you all decide, since it is a sandbox.

    you could stay as Republic heroes

    you could be more like a crew of smugglers, pirates, mercs (greys) - and work for either\both sides and the mess with the Hutts\crime more

    you could be on the Sith side, though being purely evil is actually kind of boring. I would recommend aiming more towards light-side Sith or greyish Sith. The Sith side drives the plot-line no matter what you choose to play, it is just a matter of perspective on how you look at it.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  MAS on Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:12 pm

    Those are all good ideas. Im not certain if it is a sense "been done" as much as a sense of intrusion. Ive always felt more comfortable in homebrew settings, I guess.

    If it is a full blown, cyber augmented/power armored killing machine that we have yet to see...well, I could certainly oblige.

    How would we handle Droid characters under SW rules? I could see a combat droid...with a heart of gold.


    Naw, just kidding, hed blow everything up.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:17 pm

    How about trying to create a PC version of Data? Well, not him per se, but something along those lines. Perfectly synthetic but with a strong moral code? (could be an interesting issue for party role-playing... or not)
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:18 pm

    MAS wrote:Those are all good ideas. Im not certain if it is a sense "been done" as much as a sense of intrusion. Ive always felt more comfortable in homebrew settings, I guess.
    If it is a full blown, cyber augmented/power armored killing machine that we have yet to see...well, I could certainly oblige.
    How would we handle Droid characters under SW rules? I could see a combat droid...with a heart of gold.
    Naw, just kidding, hed blow everything up.

    you guys did go outside of the established SW canon, so things are going to be a little more different this time Twisted Evil

    droid = race, so pick how much augmentation you want and pay the appropriate BPs
    buy attributes, buy skills, etc etc etc
    that is part of what I have always like about SR - there are no classes

    Matt, the player, knows how droids are treated in SW. I think most people ignore them or treat them as toasters, so that could be used to your character's advantage, depending on the "shell" of the droid. There was a Dark Horse comic with a golden-rod protocol droid aiming a very large sniper rifle on the cover one time, just as an idea
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  MAS on Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:50 pm

    whit10 wrote:How about trying to create a PC version of Data?  Well, not him per se, but something along those lines.  Perfectly synthetic but with a strong moral code?  (could be an interesting issue for party role-playing... or not)

    That could be cool. Go really skill heavy. Create a an inflexible set of moral guidlines, and RP that.

    Ill look over the rules a bit tonight (I have a lull!!!!) and chew on it a bit.

    Which edition are we using? 5 or 4?
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:02 pm

    MAS wrote:
    Which edition are we using? 5 or 4?

    use 4e for creating the character. I am not 100% set-in-stone about all the points, but Josh converted Daxx using 500 Build Points and then 100 Karma afterwards. They spend differently and some things cannot be purchased at "creation" with Build Points, so you must have some Karma (xp) to spend as well.

    note - you have to "buy" your money for gear with Build Points as well. so a droid PC would be much like a Warforged from 3.x, you would pay for armor\cyberware and the cost would include making it an "upgrade" to your chassis. While this is nice, you also have to pay to remove something if you want to upgrade later on.

    Assume you can have any regular guns, basic equipment and of course I will convert the loot the old party received if they are playing their previous character and give any new characters a couple custom items to balance it out with the items like the Ghosttouch lightsaber, Red mando armor, etc

    I am assuming that the party will be cruising in your new stealth mando gunship.... assuming there is 1 hold-over character, but I think we can write in a story either way, so you can play with that ship in SW (non-canon, here we come)
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  MAS on Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:13 pm

    Chris wrote:
    MAS wrote:
    Which edition are we using? 5 or 4?

    use 4e for creating the character.  I am not 100% set-in-stone about all the points, but Josh converted Daxx using 500 Build Points and then 100 Karma afterwards.  They spend differently and some things cannot be purchased at "creation" with Build Points, so you must have some Karma (xp) to spend as well.

    note - you have to "buy" your money for gear with Build Points as well.  so a droid PC would be much like a Warforged from 3.x, you would pay for armor\cyberware and the cost would include making it an "upgrade" to your chassis.  While this is nice, you also have to pay to remove something if you want to upgrade later on.

    Assume you can have any regular guns, basic equipment and of course I will convert the loot the old party received if they are playing their previous character and give any new characters a couple custom items to balance it out with the items like the Ghosttouch lightsaber, Red mando armor, etc

    I am assuming that the party will be cruising in your new stealth mando gunship.... assuming there is 1 hold-over character, but I think we can write in a story either way, so you can play with that ship in SW (non-canon, here we come)

    Roger that, 4e for creation. Ill be doing a fresh character. leaning towards a droid of some sort.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:45 pm

    running a couple mock\test fights using SR rules, just so I can figure out combat

    Josh completed a conversion of Daxx, so he is first up. it should be an easy fight, these are just low level corp security guard stats.

    if anyone wants to follow in the new thread
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:34 pm

    maybe I am reading the rules incorrectly, but I just don't Drain being that big of an issue, like it was in 1e (or maybe we never read those rules either)

    let's assume a full mage, with magic rating of 8
    sorcery 8
    and a spellcasting focus of 2

    will and logic at 5 each (could be higher for sure)

    Levitate (move object)

    1 hit (success) per 200kg or 440lbs.  this is a very easy test to pick a person and not all that hard for an x-wing

    mage can choose the force level of his spell up to 8 (for stun drain) or 16 (physical damage drain)

    no need to go overboard, let's use a force of 4, which could lift almost 1800lbs

    roll 8 (magic) + 4 sorcery (since force 4) +2 foci, with a max of 4 hits, should be easy to get with 14d

    Drain = (F\2) + 1 = 3

    3 boxes of drain, resist using logic and willpower 10d
    assuming the initiate used Centering that adds +2d to resist
    12d to resist 3
    to lift a very large object

    ______________________________________

    Fireball
    let's use the same #s as above

    14d to roll for hits, extra hits add to damage
    base damage 4P + fire effects + extra hits

    drain = (F\2) + 5 = 7

    again 12d to resist 7 drain
    ok, probably taking a little drain here, but the mage just scorched an Area, armor only counts 1/2 and things can catch fire and keep burning

    _______________________________________

    Heal self

    force = # of boxes healed, again let's assume 4 boxes of damage

    drain = (f) -2 = 2

    12d to resist 2 drain, should be no problem

    _____________________________________

    Influence (affect mind)

    same as above, force 4 resisted by willpower
    14d vs their willpower (probably 4-6 range)

    drain = (f\2) +1 = 3 drain
    again should be no problem with 12d to resist

    _______________________________________

    looking at single target attack spells, drain is less than for area effects and significantly less to do Stun damage and KO a target, probably a lot easier to succeed vs just Willpower than Body + armor.  drain is minimal, usually (f\2).  a mage could easily raise that force # up to 6 or 8 and really mana-blast someone probably w\o much, if any drain.

    _________________________________________________________

    I used force ratings of 4 above also to illustrate that the same 8 magic rating, now on a Mystic Adept  could easily have 4 Adept points and 4 spell casting and be very effective as a Jedi\Sith
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:39 pm

    oh, now that's different. I was misreading it. Thank you
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:49 pm

    whit10 wrote:oh, now that's different.  I was misreading it.  Thank you

    no problem cheers

    I really do think the rules are good, but the written explanation could be better. I really have to re-read everything and check 2-3 different places in the book to follow it all.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:22 pm

    I think that's what's driving me nuts... they don't have it well organized in book. It's a bit frustrating
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  MAS on Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:06 am

    Some thoughts-




    Part of the problem with converting the SW setting into a rules set, is that there is a massive disparity between force users and everything else.

    Jedi and Sith are the superheros/supervillians of the setting. From a  game and party design standpoint, it is going to be hard to paint them accurately and still be fair to the rest of the party.

    Its one thing when you run a party "all force" or "no force", but trying to mix it all together hamstrings force powers, IMO.




    This is a cool project, and I 'm sure SR "can" minimally serve for the setting. I do think that there are much better systems for gaming in the SW setting out there, though. HERO system comes to mind as an extremely flexible point buy structure, that has well balanced mechanics for "magic", droids and bots, and ships/vehicles.

    As it is, using SR is going to ensure a lot of "fudge factor" and effort spent trying to make the rules support things they are not intended to.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:12 am

    I have to agree with you Matt.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:37 am

    MAS wrote:Some thoughts-


    Part of the problem with converting the SW setting into a rules set, is that there is a massive disparity between force users and everything else.
    Jedi and Sith are the superheros/supervillians of the setting. From a  game and party design standpoint, it is going to be hard to paint them accurately and still be fair to the rest of the party.
    Its one thing when you run a party "all force" or "no force", but trying to mix it all together hamstrings force powers, IMO.


    This is a cool project, and I 'm sure SR "can" minimally serve for the setting. I do think that there are much better systems for gaming in the SW setting out there, though. HERO system comes to mind as an extremely flexible point buy structure, that has well balanced mechanics for "magic", droids and bots, and ships/vehicles.
    As it is, using SR is going to ensure a lot of "fudge factor" and effort spent trying to make the rules support things they are not intended to.

    I hear you and I have thought about those points as well.  My take on them....

    Jedi\Sith are only part of the SW universe, Han, Chewie, Leia, Lando.... were all heroes and didn't seem "less" heroic than Luke.  So Jedi\Sith shouldn't be over-powered compared to other playable character concepts.  I thought the old d6 rules were more balanced in this regard, but I think d20 failed miserably and if you were not a force-user, you were simply 2nd class.

    That is a big part of the reason I looked outside of the existing SW rules, in an attempt to restore some balance to the game.  Honestly, I have just never liked the HERO system.  I admit that my exposure to it is limited, but I have played a few variants of it and I just never liked it.  I certainly don't know it well enough to GM it.  On the other hand, I always really liked SR back in the day and I really like the current state of it in 4E.  I think 5E rewinds too much back to 1E\3E and I don't like it.

    I really think that a smuggler, scout, noble, soldier should be just as playable and fun as a force user.  SR, using the adept\mystic adept rules in particular compels force users to invest heavily into magic\adept to be able to use the Force at a high level, which sacrifices a lot of skills\attributes.  Josh literally dumped almost all of his Karma into raising his Magic rating through initiation (in the 1st draft).  Force users will come down in power using SR rules - that is part of my intent.  That is also part of my intent in introducing cyberware via droids, armor.... or surgery if we use the later time-line idea.  All of those things balance out a force user's abilities.  

    It would be like playing Superheroes and everyone wanting to be on power with Superman, Thanos, Apocalypse... because they just watched the movies.  Not everyone can be Darth Sidious, Vader, Obi Wan, Yoda.  

    SR also handles vehicles\droids (drones), which should be a bigger part of SW and it was "my bad" as a GM for not using them more the first time around.  I want to correct that on this trip.

    I do hear you, but I have spent a lot of time reading the SR4E book and I really think it will handle SW very well.  So far, I have really made very few 'house rules'. Namely - adept "empty hand" abilities now apply to Lightsabers for sith\jedi, including Crit strike, missle parry, etc etc. magic = force (that is going to happen in any system), Edge = force points.... that's about it.

    I think the 'fudge factor' is going to be in how players think about what a playable jedi\sith can do. It will be (and should be) LESS than they could do in d20. Look at our d20 party.... only Alan was not originally a force user. Why? 1 lvl dip into any force using class opened up force feats and a bunch of over-powered associated skills. Matt and Rob both took full advantage of that and Alan was on that path with being Force Sensitive.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  MAS on Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:07 pm

    All good points, and I want to clarify that I didnt add those thoughts as a complaint. Just the kind of things we'd be discussing in person over coffee or a beer otherwise.

    I agree about how playing non force users can and should be as fun as force users, but again, and even in the SW system, I dont think they mix well in a single party. To remain accurate in the setting, force users are simply several orders of magnitude more powerful than 99% of others around them.

    And looking at playing a droid, here is where fudge factors start to come in -

    Is a droid immune to mind effecting powers, automatically immune to poison, disease, illusion, etc?

    Can a droid be intimidated or bluffed?

    Droids require mechanic checks instead of healing checks?

    Can they be buffed/debuffed by force/magic?




    Also - Star Wars: Rebels. First episode left me unconvinced, but by episode 4 I think they are doing a great job with it.

    Spoiler alert/possibility - Sabine is somehow related to Kenobi's Sabine, the former ruler of Mandalore. Explains the Mando armor...

    Love the Inquisitor character!





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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:13 pm

    ah, now that I see what you're going for Chris, I think I can agree. They are more powerful in d20 SW (one of the reasons why I though the PF system should be used for SW as regards skills and feats, it would, at least, bump up the non-force users).

    I have to agree with Chris on this one, the Hero systems is really underwhelming.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  MAS on Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:29 pm

    whit10 wrote:ah, now that I see what you're going for Chris, I think I can agree.  They are more powerful in d20 SW (one of the reasons why I though the PF system should be used for SW as regards skills and feats, it would, at least, bump up the non-force users).

    I have to agree with Chris on this one, the Hero systems is really underwhelming.

    I find "underwhelming" to be an odd description, but to each their own. I cant think of any systems that balance power levels across a wide spectrum of genres better than HERO system does. But, I also think Ive had much greater exposure to it in different genres than most of the group has. Im not arguing fore using it as much as it using it as example that broader systems may be more able to handle the power disparity.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:30 pm

    MAS wrote:All good points, and I want to clarify that I didnt add those thoughts as a complaint. Just the kind of things we'd be discussing in person over coffee or a beer otherwise.

    I agree about how playing non force users can and should be as fun as force users, but again, and even in the SW system, I dont think they mix well in a single party. To remain accurate in the setting, force users are simply several orders of magnitude more powerful than 99% of others around them.

    And looking at playing a droid, here is where fudge factors start to come in  -
    Is a droid immune to mind effecting powers, automatically immune to poison, disease, illusion, etc?
    Can a droid be intimidated or bluffed?
    Droids require mechanic checks instead of healing checks?
    Can they be buffed/debuffed by force/magic?



    Also - Star Wars: Rebels. First episode left me unconvinced, but by episode 4 I think they are doing a great job with it.  
    Spoiler alert/possibility - Sabine is somehow related to Kenobi's Sabine, the former ruler of Mandalore. Explains the Mando armor...
    Love the Inquisitor character!

    I am really enjoying SW Rebels too, good stuff. I hope Disney can make the movies equally good in that venue

    I know you weren't complaining. I was just trying to explain my thinking a bit, since the issue of system has come up a couple times now.

    As for SW setting and force users, I guess I disagree there. ep1-3 are bad examples (and just bad in general), but I guess I look at ep4-6 and I don't see Luke being "simply several orders of magnitude more powerful than 99% of others around them". He had a unique skill set for fighting Vader, but Han\Leia\Chewie saved his bacon twice in as many movies and it took a group effort to save Han from Jabba.

    Let me look up what SR says about drones and how they interact with Riggers. Another way to look at a sentient-droid PC is as a rigger that simply inhabits his drone. I don't think it even needs to be that complex, per se.

    Also consider Warforged in 3.x, they have many of the same issues as living constructs, so I might also default to some of the rules used for them.

    Off the top of my head and this is by no means final, I would say

    Droids in general -
    YES - immune to biological things like disease, poison
    but - also vulnerable to things like EMPs, restraining bolts, jawa droid guns

    Yes - they can be bluffed, tricked, fooled, etc. they think, reason and have to decide what to believe\who to trust on their own. Jabba tortured droids and C3PO had emotions - fear, worry, relief

    Yes - would use appropriate skills like Repair, not heal

    No - cannot be healed with "healing" magic\force meant for biologicals (see above) and would be affected by the equivalent of "drain energy" meant for devices

    No - not affected by age\time, essentially immortal or as long as their parts last

    No - need to eat food, but must recharge "If you're not needing me, I think I'll shut down for a while" and get plugged in for power (more like sleep than food)


    If you have HERO and they have some rules for Droid PCs, then by all means let's take a look and maybe we can incorporate them too
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:34 pm

    To each their own Matt but "underwhelming" means that the characters are pretty weak and they can't really do much of anything significant.

    the Strong Hero, for example, was really pointless as regards powers (honestly, an extra point of damage as a power?)... it was based off of the older open source d20 system created by WoC for 3rd edition... which, at least in my opinion, was badly flawed
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:35 pm

    If we have a droid in the party (love the idea) a techie of some kind should be able to 'heal' them with a repair check, shouldn't they?
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  MAS on Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:36 pm

    whit10 wrote:To each their own Matt but "underwhelming" means that the characters are pretty weak and they can't really do much of anything significant.

    the Strong Hero, for example, was really pointless as regards powers (honestly, an extra point of damage as a power?)... it was based off of the older open source d20 system created by WoC for 3rd edition... which, at least in my opinion, was badly flawed

    Thats not the HERO system, that is D20 modern. Totally different game.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_System


    Last edited by MAS on Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

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