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    SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

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    MAS
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  MAS on Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:23 pm

    Special Circumstances has not granted you clearance to access mission parameters or rules of engagement for Remote Operations Drone K.8195294:4624164.V as of this time.

    That is to say - Gray. Very, very gray.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:03 am

    huh?
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  MAS on Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:57 am

    whit10 wrote:huh?

    Unknown interrogative. Re-state query.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:42 am

    MAS wrote:
    whit10 wrote:huh?

    Unknown interrogative. Re-state query.

    lol!

    are you actually going to be a droid now or still the mini-me alien in a droid body (circa MiB1)?
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  MAS on Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:58 am

    Mini-Alien, because the mechanics work better that way. However, the species' high context language does not translate well into Galactic common. When processed through the communication nodes of the pilot's Operations and Reconnaissance Chassis, it ends up sounding more like simplified droid speech.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:04 pm

    ooh... now I want to play the wookie tech so I could mess with Matt. lol
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:19 pm

    MAS wrote:Mini-Alien, because the mechanics work better that way. However, the species' high context language does not translate well into Galactic common. When processed through the communication nodes of the pilot's Operations and Reconnaissance Chassis, it ends up sounding more like simplified droid speech.

    ok, cool. Your race is probably from the same area of the Fringe as a race called the Gree. They are a stange bunch, but very technologically advanced. They also cannot speak common, but make heavy use of protocol droids. It is rumored that the Gree were the race that first developed hyper-space technology.

    The Gree's fingerprints (well, tentacle prints) often go unnoticed, even though they are all over the galaxy. For examples: the air-processors used to purify the air on the smog-ridden lower 100 levels of Coruscant are of Gree design. The Tabanna gas collectors on Bespin are of Gree design.

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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  MAS on Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:33 pm

    The Prime are much like the Gree, except that their bodies are not swollen large with barbarian stupidity.

    lol!
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:19 pm

    MAS wrote:The Prime are much like the Gree, except that their bodies are not swollen large with barbarian stupidity.

    lol!

    The Gree are quite fond of a particular delicacy they call Ortolan.  Much like the French delicacy of the same name on Earth, the Gree consume the tiny members of the prime, bones and all.  The consumption of Ortulan was banned centuries ago, sadly that did little to curb the practice among the elite of the Gree Enclave.  Unlike the French, the Gree feel no shame or need to cover their heads while enjoying a rare treat.



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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:49 pm

    Does this mean that Matt will surrender every time he's encountered by enemies? Wink
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:49 pm

    whit10 wrote:Does this mean that Matt will surrender every time he's encountered by enemies?  Wink

    Matt is the bird Twisted Evil
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  MAS on Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:54 pm

    rofl! The Gree are the Prime's mortal enemies!
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:06 pm

    what type of small creature are the Prime?

    mammalian, reptilian, avian, arthropod.....

    find me a good picture


    (for the menu) pig
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  MAS on Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:38 pm



    Liquid dwelling arthropod.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:26 pm

    Matt's a shrimp? This is going to be too much fun!

    ... didn't know he was a character in Finding Nemo. lol

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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  MAS on Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:34 pm

    whit10 wrote:Matt's a shrimp?  This is going to be too much fun!

    ... didn't know he was a character in Finding Nemo. lol



    ROFL!

    The concept is that he is a rigger who never leaves his vehicle. It will be spec'd out with various sub drones that can detach from the main chassis.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:49 pm

    whatever you have to tell yourself, shrimpy. Wink

    I really hope none of the other characters like seafood.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:37 pm

    MAS wrote:

    Liquid dwelling arthropod.

    Live Maine Prime.... num num num..... the Gree like to dip your living kin into various pots filled with herb-flavored oils, kind of like Fondue (without the cheese)

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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:27 pm

    I'm thinking the Faleen might find them tasty too. Twisted Evil
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  MAS on Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:57 pm

    whit10 wrote:whatever you have to tell yourself, shrimpy.  Wink

    I really hope none of the other characters like seafood.  

    Rule #1: No throwing my character "on the barbie".
    Rule #2: No coating my character in coconut batter.
    Rule #3: No "Bubba gump" like droning on and on about shrimp recipes.




    So, back to the concept of the high context language. The Prime consider themselves to be the one, true, pure species in the galaxy - hence the translation of their name into something that is more of a concept (Prime Numbers) than a label. The prime consider all other species to be "Composite number" species. Any enemy species (like the Gree) are negative species. The universe is an equation, and the Prime are seeking to solve it, so they can transcend into post-physical forms.


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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:19 pm

    MAS wrote:
    Rule #1: No throwing my character "on the barbie".
    Rule #2: No coating my character in coconut batter.
    Rule #3: No "Bubba gump" like droning on and on about shrimp recipes.




    So, back to the concept of the high context language. The Prime consider themselves to be the one, true, pure species in the galaxy - hence the translation of their name into something that is more of a concept (Prime Numbers) than a label. The prime consider all other species to be "Composite number" species. Any enemy species (like the Gree) are negative species. The universe is an equation, and the Prime are seeking to solve it, so they can transcend into post-physical forms.

    Good stuff cheers

    I was toying with some math-language fun with the Gree as well. They are more Geometry\Physics orientated than Algebra\Calculus like the Prime. Kind of like the "Darmac and Jalad at Tanagra" episdoe of ST:TNG. They speak common, but they speak in geometric\physics terms, so there is no real translation, just a contextual understanding.

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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:39 pm

    oh, you don't get off that easy... I'll carry an extra can of butter with me and several metal skewers. Twisted Evil
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  MAS on Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:45 pm

    Luckily for me, no one will actually know what a Prime looks like.

    Some concept art for a quad walker main chassis. The weapons would not be quite as obvious as they are on some of these.
























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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  MAS on Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:56 pm

    Chris wrote:
    MAS wrote:
    Rule #1: No throwing my character "on the barbie".
    Rule #2: No coating my character in coconut batter.
    Rule #3: No "Bubba gump" like droning on and on about shrimp recipes.




    So, back to the concept of the high context language. The Prime consider themselves to be the one, true, pure species in the galaxy - hence the translation of their name into something that is more of a concept (Prime Numbers) than a label. The prime consider all other species to be "Composite number" species. Any enemy species (like the Gree) are negative species. The universe is an equation, and the Prime are seeking to solve it, so they can transcend into post-physical forms.

    Good stuff cheers

    I was toying with some math-language fun with the Gree as well.  They are more Geometry\Physics orientated than Algebra\Calculus like the Prime.  Kind of like the "Darmac and Jalad at Tanagra" episdoe of ST:TNG.  They speak common, but they speak in geometric\physics terms, so there is no real translation, just a contextual understanding.


    Very cool. this is the stuff that comes from reading/watching piles of sci fi and fantasy books/shows, lol! Are the Gree your invention, or something from the expanded universe?
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:45 am

    MAS wrote:
    Very cool. this is the stuff that comes from reading/watching piles of sci fi and fantasy books/shows, lol! Are the Gree your invention, or something from the expanded universe?

    I like the legs with tracks on them and the 6 legged variants, but just my taste.

    The Gree are an EU race, as pictured. They are barely mentioned in the SWTOR game, they are basically just a quest giver on Coruscant. There is a series of quests, given by a protocol droid of theirs to fix the air purification systems, which gives any class a reason to follow a similar path. They don't eat other races.

    They will have an expanded presence in my story and will probably be a bit more on the sinister side. I am altering their backstory to fit my alternate universe, since I need some non-sith threats.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  navyik on Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:04 pm

    I will be playing Spike. He is ready for your fine toothed comb.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:52 am

    Since I know not everyone is reading each other's character pages, I wanted to repost some stuff from "Crunch-master-flash's" page, that I want everyone to be aware of

    Chris wrote:
    navyik wrote:
    Adept  power:
    Imp.reflx   3.0* (25% discount warriors way)

    Imp. Ability 2   .75(25% discount).


    Ambidex  5
    Mystic Adept 10
    Initiate +3  "inquisitor" group+ordeal 29k


    I see, ok.  You have obviously drilled very deeply into many books for each detail in your character.  I am sorry if it wasn't clear, but when I asked for everyone to show the points they spent on their character, my intention was for the players to make it easier for me to check the characters.  We are all new to the system and this is a learning process for all of us.

    just saying "group + ordeal 29k" doesn't really tell me what I need to know, the way this does

    navyik wrote:See group initiation and initiation ordeal (geasa) in street magic p.50

    40% discount

    Chris wrote:I kind of thought this was just a power creep in a later book....

    navyik wrote:
    The 25% discount is legit, but I can only select certain powers and so many powers to which it applies.  I am allowed 2 powers from the list given at the discount.

    FAVORED POWERS
    Way bonuses and discounted powers exist partially
    to help adepts “keep up with the Joneses” as a counter-
    balance to the discounts available to other characters for
    cyberware packages, grades of augmentation, Qualities,
    and other methods available to lower the Essence cost
    of various implants.




    You are searching books for specific things related to your character(s).  I am trying to absorb many books as they relate to all characters, GM info and monitor for balance.  I had hoped for a bit more explanation and transparency for 2 main reasons:

    1 - other players can learn # crunches from each other.  Josh, for example, doesn't have any discounted powers\abilities etc on his Mystic Adept.  I bet he would be interested in learning how to make his character stronger.  Likewise, maybe Matt and Dan would see the comment about how the later books gave discount %s to "keep up with the Joneses" since it seems Augmentation\Arsenal came out prior to Street Magic or Way of the XYZ

    2 - honestly, part of what I want to see is for balance purposes.  I realize that non of us have played 4e ever, but we all know what has happened with D&D 2e, Vampire\WW\Mage, D&D 3.0\3.5 and now even PF.... as time goes on, companies want to keep making money, so they release more and more books and there is an inevitable Power Creep.  Players get stronger and stronger as new books come out.  

    All the discounts are great as long as everyone (GM included) is using them.  If only 1 or 2 people use them, then it skews the balance of the party and the game as a whole.  Encounter challenges are too easy, if the GM doesn't crunch all the discounts into his NPCs.  

    It's a fine line and I am not trying to cripple your designs, so that is why I wanted to see everything up front and get a sense of balance.

    It is up to the party.... but either everyone needs to be using all the books or we can just limit the game to the Core Book while we learn it. It is really about how much time people want to put into build-design and research. I don't care either way.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:14 pm

    I'm not going to vote against including other books but I don't know that this will be able to help me much?  I don't have the points to initiate anyway as it is... magic sucks up a TON of points (spells, magic rating, will, etc.)

    Not against it, just not sure just HOW it helps my dude?

    If I'm reading it right, as of right now, it would allow Shivak to Initiate, to level one, for 9 Karma instead of 11? Is that right? He could do that instead of buying a Power Focus, but that's the only benefit that I see right now (assuming that I'm reading this right)
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  MAS on Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:24 pm

    I'd like to have all books open. I'll need source books to properly execute my concept. What I'll do is copy/paste descriptions into the character sheet.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:27 pm

    whit10 wrote:I'm not going to vote against including other books but I don't know that this will be able to help me much?  I don't have the points to initiate anyway as it is... magic sucks up a TON of points (spells, magic rating, will, etc.)

    Not against it, just not sure just HOW it helps my dude?

    If I'm reading it right, as of right now, it would allow Shivak to Initiate, to level one, for 9 Karma instead of 11?  Is that right?  He could do that instead of buying a Power Focus, but that's the only benefit that I see right now (assuming that I'm reading this right)

    the point is that you are probably missing a lot of discounts designed for mages.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:05 pm

    I get that... I just haven't been able to find anything that helps at the moment. This fight will probably reveal some flaws here and there... having to wait an action (or just being prepared for combat) means that I nearly always have to cast Increased Reflexes 1st. It wouldn't be bad to figure a way around that.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:22 pm

    whit10 wrote:I get that... I just haven't been able to find anything that helps at the moment.  This fight will probably reveal some flaws here and there... having to wait an action (or just being prepared for combat) means that I nearly always have to cast Increased Reflexes 1st.  It wouldn't be bad to figure a way around that.

    Read the part on SPIKE's page about how I was wrong about how Mystic Adepts use Magic.

    I think you can put more points into Adept powers and worry less about Magic rating, if you want. Then you could just buy up some Adept Reflexes at -25% of the cost (Way of the Adept) if you pick a "Way". you also get other discounts and bonuses for only 10BP

    I agree though 100% losing 1 action pass to cast "Imp Reflexes" is rough
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:34 pm

    Wait a minute... so your overall magic score is still the Force Rating, not just what you have divided up between Adept Powers and Spellcasting (or whatever).. is that right?!

    That changes quite a few things... as does the "way of the adept" stuff

    It would allow Shivak to have Increased Reflexes through Adept powers instead, they act like Wired Reflexes (always going) as the description points out. That would correct the problem I've pointed out
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:42 pm

    Alan's find about Magic Rating also clears up why you would have cyberware and magic... you can still have a decent amount of dice for spell casting.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:48 pm

    whit10 wrote:Wait a minute... so your overall magic score is still the Force Rating, not just what you have divided up between Adept Powers and Spellcasting (or whatever).. is that right?!

    That changes quite a few things... as does the "way of the adept" stuff

    It would allow Shivak to have Increased Reflexes through Adept powers instead, they act like Wired Reflexes (always going) as the description points out.  That would correct the problem I've pointed out

    I thought you might like it Rolling Eyes

    instead of the Force being reduced, the number of Dice in your Spellcasting pool is reduced instead.

    Alan is only throwing 1 die of Spellcasting skill, regardless of Force. It still limits how many successes you will see in the end, just in a different way. For Shivak, I still think you want more than 1 point in "spells" but that's up to you, of course
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:50 pm

    I could easily say fuck it, one less die in my Influence group spell, for now, is more than worth the 25 karma to initiate and maybe figure a way to buy his Magic Rating up.  I have to rethink things.  Building Spellcasting up is cheaper than buying up magic rating anyway.

    Clarification needed... the discount to initiation costs in the Street Magic book only cover the levels of initiation, right? Not the cost of raising one's magic rating?
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:57 pm

    whit10 wrote:I could easily say fuck it, one less die in my Influence group spell, for now, is more than worth the 25 karma to initiate and maybe figure a way to buy his Magic Rating up.  I have to rethink things.  Building Spellcasting up is cheaper than buying up magic rating anyway.

    I think we were figuring Initiation wrong earlier too

    it is only 10 + (grade x3) per level

    so 13 = grade 1
    + 16 (29) = grade 2
    + 19 (48) = grade 3

    but then see Alan's 40% discount, so grade 3 is really only 29k

    it doesn't raise your magic attribute (that is still really expensive to go from 6 to 7) but you get the other benefits of Initiation (centering, shielding, etc)
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:00 pm

    so, I've been tinkering with a new build... buying Magic up to a 7 (so far) and re-figuring his Spell point distribution.

    4 for magic, 3 for spells? without having to go through all other changes, what do you think of that? it's still 8 dice (plus a possible power focus) to the pool.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:05 pm

    the other option is to drop Deflection down to level 2 but I'm a bit hesitant to do that
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:09 pm

    does Initiating to level 2 (w/ Alan's discounts) only cost 19 Karma?
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:19 pm

    whit10 wrote:does Initiating to level 2 (w/ Alan's discounts) only cost 19 Karma?

    just do the math (13 x .6) + (16 x .6)
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:22 pm

    ah, even rounding up, it's actually 18. word
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:26 pm

    whit10 wrote:ah, even rounding up, it's actually 18.  word

    yeah, you have to add them separately, since you pay for them at different times

    13 x .6 = 7.8 or 8

    16 x .6 = 9.6 or 10

    so yes, 18
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:28 pm

    whit10 wrote:Alan's find about Magic Rating also clears up why you would have cyberware and magic... you can still have a decent amount of dice for spell casting.

    right, you can do the same thing in 2 ways

    cyberware (lowers essence, lowers magic rating) + Spells = reflexes + spells

    adept + spells = reflexes + spells
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:38 pm

    check the new version of this guy on my character page... it's just an idea about using magic differently but I'm incorporating many of the things that are in the street magic book. (I vote for all books, might as well) I think we should get more karma to start with as well and I will try to make a reasoned argument to support my suggestion.

    Since d20 and SR use very, VERY, different systems, it's hard to apply a rubric for comparison but I think that I have one. I would reason that, roughly, 20 karma represents a 'level' in advancement. To compare, each level in most d20 systems gives at least SOME kind of power advancement or new power every level. In SR, I think it would stand to reason that, during down time like it talks about in the book, you actually raise your stats, skills, etc. 20 karma during each downtime would at least represent raising an attribute to a 5, a skill group to a 4, an individual skill to it's max, more magic, foci, etc. etc. The point is, that average number seems to be about right for what we're dealing with here... to me, that translates to 180 karma (9th level x. 20) to start with. I think this gives anyone who is not using cyberware a chance at somewhat more level footing, since ranged weapons are more lethal, all things considered.

    I will of course bow to the GMs wishes


    End of plea and/or rant. santa
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:42 pm

    from 4e book

    As a general rule of thumb, characters should be earning an average
    of 4–5 Karma per adventure, and no more than 10 Karma.


    I still think 100-125 is being generous for 9th - 10th level. I am even assuming that 1 adventure might be less than 1 level.

    I understand that being a mage is karma-intensive.... that is why they give all the discount % bonuses in the later books Wink
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:57 pm

    hey, at this point, I'll take the extra 5 karma if you're offering it... I could get him to an 8 Magic Rating (still nothing for skills, bonus spells, ect.)...

    or am I making way too much out of just have my magic rating split 4/3 adept vs. spell pool? That would free up a ton of karma...
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:49 pm

    rules question... Is Force only based on the fact that you can cast and that you have a magic rating (up to whatever)? If so, does that mean that, as a Mystic Adept, you can spend up to 6 or how whatever points, in Adept abilities and you still have a force of 6 (or double for physical damage drain)?
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  Chris on Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:08 pm

    whit10 wrote:rules question... Is Force only based on the fact that you can cast and that you have a magic rating (up to whatever)?  If so, does that mean that, as a Mystic Adept, you can spend up to 6 or how whatever points, in Adept abilities and you still have a force of 6 (or double for physical damage drain)?

    I see where you are going with this.... but no, it doesn't (and shouldn't) work that way.

    Every point of Magic invested in mana-based abilities grants the character
    one point to use with Magic-based skills.


    so if you had adept powers of 6 and mana skills of 0, you would just be an Adept and couldn't cast spells at all.

    You have to have at least 1 point in Magic (for spells) to cast. But if you had 1 point in Magic, then YES, you could cast with a Force of up to your full Magic Rating or x2 for overcasting.
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    Re: SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas

    Post  whit10 on Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:02 pm

    I think I have it now. Thanks... wasn't trying to rules lawyer anything

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