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    rakhu 2.0

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    navyik

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    rakhu 2.0

    Post  navyik on Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:46 am

    Rakhu 2.0
    Rodian (ork) 20 bp

    Body 8    40 bp
    Agil   7    75 bp  
    Reac 5(7) 30 bp  
    Str     4    10 bp
    Log   3      20         
    Intu   5     40
    Cha   2     0          10k
    Will    4     30        

    245+20

    Initiative  10(12)
    Edge  4    30 bp
    Magic 5   40 bp


    Weapon att dmg RC
    LRB 14 6(Cool(11) 5
         






    Adept         5 bp
    Imp. Att.   20bp
    Guts                      5
    Will to live 3       15
    Pain resist 3       15
    Quick healer 2    10
    Mystic armor 2    1mp
    Imp. Reflexes 2    3mp

    Sensitive syst.   +15

    Incompetent palming and etiquette +10

    380

    Firearms Grp       2             20
     Automatics     4(11)          8
      Spec. SMGs     (13)          2k            
     pistols               3(10)         4
      Spec. Slugthr   (12)         2k
    Longarms           2(9)    
     
    Hvy.                       5(12)   20
     Spec repeat blst  (14)     2k
    Demo.                    2(5)      8  
     
    Unarmed Cbt       4(11)     16    
     Sp. MMA              (13)       2k
    Killing hands                      .5 mp
    Crit srike +2 DR                 .5 mp

    Outdoors grp       2            20k
    Mechanic grp      1            10k
    Hard electronics   1            4k
    Leadership            1(3)        4k
    Con                         3(5)        14k
      Spec imperson.   (7)     
    Infiltration             4(11)        16
    First aid                 1             4k
    Dodge                    4(11)      16
     Spec. Ranged     (13)         2k
    Perception            5(10)      20            
    Gunnery                3              14k

    24 knowledge

    Huttese 3
    Rodian  N
    Basic   N
    Shrywook 2
    Mandalorian 3

    History               2(5)     2
    Spec. Military    (7)      1
    Factions            3(6)      3
    Spec. Mando    (Cool       1
    Tactics               5(Cool     5
    Spec. Cmndo    (10)
    Xenology            2(5)     2
    Spec. Wildlife     (7)      1


    Last edited by navyik on Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:38 pm; edited 14 times in total
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    Chris

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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  Chris on Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:03 am

    looks like a good start, but I am not quite sure I follow how you spent your points....

    I see the BPs and MPs

    what are the 18k, 21k after some entries?

    I am not sure you did your attributes right, but I may be mistaken.  Did you notice that it costs 10BP per +1, but it costs 25BP to "max" an attribute?

    so your agility as an Ork, starts at 1.  I see you bought exceptional ability, which I assume is Agility, for 20bp, this raises your natural max from 6 to 7.

    so it would cost 50 bps to go from 1 to 6 and then 25 bp to go to 7.  total BP for "max" agility of 7 = 75.  again, i am not sure what the 21k here represents?

    same for Reaction, it would cost 40 BPs to go from 1 to 5 and then 25 to go to 6 = 65 (not 40, but not sure what the 18k means)

    also note, characters cannot have more than 1 attribute at "max" pg 82

    you can only spend 1/2 your total BPs on attributes

    but I could be totally missing something too, that's why this helps me understand the game!
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  Chris on Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:16 am

    from the other thread, more of a concept issue than a points issue

    Chris wrote:
    just thinking about how adept translates to SW.... you also have to buy up your magic rating (max 6). unless Rakhu would have taken actual d20 levels as a force adept, he would probably only have a magic rating of 1-2 from the exposure. Adept is really meant to reflect Jedi\Sith abilities. I think a magic of 1-2 would reflect "Force Sensitive" in d20, since that allowed you store more Force Points and gave you access to skills like Enhance Ability.
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  navyik on Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:22 pm

    Chris wrote:looks like a good start, but I am not quite sure I follow how you spent your points....

    I see the BPs and MPs

    what are the 18k, 21k after some entries?

    I am not sure you did your attributes right, but I may be mistaken.  Did you notice that it costs 10BP per +1, but it costs 25BP to "max" an attribute?

    so your agility as an Ork, starts at 1.  I see you bought exceptional ability, which I assume is Agility, for 20bp, this raises your natural max from 6 to 7.

    so it would cost 50 bps to go from 1 to 6 and then 25 bp to go to 7.  total BP for "max" agility of 7 = 75.  again, i am not sure what the 21k here represents?

    same for Reaction, it would cost 40 BPs to go from 1 to 5 and then 25 to go to 6 = 65 (not 40, but not sure what the 18k means)

    also note, characters cannot have more than 1 attribute at "max" pg 82

    you can only spend 1/2 your total BPs on attributes

    but I could be totally missing something too, that's why this helps me understand the game!

    K is karma expenditure After the initial build. I used less than half the bp on attributes. My initial build has no max attributes and 2 skills at 5. Please spell out any specific changes and I will reorganize it. scratch
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  Chris on Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:59 pm

    navyik wrote:
    K is karma expenditure After the initial build. I used less than half the bp on attributes.  My initial build has no max attributes and 2 skills at 5.  Please spell out any specific changes and I will reorganize it.  scratch

    lol! karma, of course, sorry for being dense (learning process for everyone)

    ok, so let me look at those again then  

    navyik wrote:
    Agil   7    40 bp   21k


    Agility 1 + 40 BP = 5

    The cost of improving a natural attribute rating is the new rating x 5.

    so 5x6 karma to raise to 6  30k
    and 5x7 karma to raise to 7 = 35k

    I agree with the 40 BP, but I see the karma cost as 65k, not 21k.   I could be wrong though, how are you figuring the 21k?

    navyik wrote:
    Reac 6(Cool 40 bp   18k

    same here 40BP = 5, ok
    5x6 = 30k to raise to 6

    I will stop here and not look at the rest, in case I am still being dense.  can you explain how you got to your numbers?
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  navyik on Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:33 pm

    Ok. I incorrectly assumed that "extrordinary attribute" raised the minimum also. I will correct this and let you know when its ready for further review.

    You have karma costs wrong. Attributes cost 3x the new number. Skills 2x.
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  navyik on Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:24 pm

    Ok. Its ready. While it is unlikely that I would have taken adept levels in the d20 system, this system abandons class levels. I was hoping to blur the line between force sensitive and trained adept.
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  Chris on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:08 am

    navyik wrote:
    You have karma costs wrong.  Attributes cost 3x the new number.  Skills 2x.

    study please refer to page 270, under character improvement, I believe you are still mistaken

    improvement karma cost
    New Specialization 2
    New Knowledge/Language skill 2
    New Active skill 4
    New Active skill group 10
    Improving a Knowledge/Language skill by 1 New rating
    Improving an Active skill by 1 New rating x 2
    Improving an Active skill group by 1 New rating x 5
    Improving an attribute by 1 New rating x 5
    New positive quality BP Cost x 2
    Removing a negative quality BP Bonus x 2
    New spell 5
    New complex form 2
    Improving a complex form by 1 New rating


    from the paragraph about improving attributes specifically:
    The cost of improving a natural attribute rating is the new rating x 5. For example, if a character
    wants to improve her Agility from 4 to 5, the cost is 5 x 5, or 25 Karma.


    I know these 4e books are a bit confusing, sorry, I think it is good that we hash all this stuff out in advance. I think you are right about an active skill being x2, but I don't see anything at x3 scratch
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  navyik on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:23 am

    Please refer to page 264 halfway down the second column under IMPROVING ATTRIBUTES. I believe text trumps quick reference sheets. pirat

    The example given there is raising a 4 to a 5 at a cost of 15 karma, or 5x3.

    I would guess that the quick sheet is a type-0 since the text shows the math and the reference on the quick sheet is adjacent to another x5 improvement.
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  Chris on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:25 am

    navyik wrote:Ok.  Its ready.  While it is unlikely that I would have taken adept levels in the d20 system, this system abandons class levels.  I was hoping to blur the line between force sensitive and trained adept.

    Ok, no problem, let's see what people decide regarding the timeline question anyways. Rakhu could always get re-imagined into a different person (same stats) 300 years later too, then the issue is moot. Or you could look at cyberware instead of adept powers.

    I know you have a solid crunch there, I just want to avoid everybody being adepts to get the magically boosted reflexes, since that is really meant as the conversion for Jedi\Sith. Maybe I just will restrict Initiation to Jedi\SIth? I don't know, just thinking out loud here.

    In terms of re-imagining, I guess you could always re-write the backstory into a more alien, force-trained, group of gun-totting BAMFs. Sort of the way King writes about the Gunslinger, it always read like a gun-jedi to me.
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  Chris on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:28 am

    navyik wrote:Please refer to page 264 halfway down the second column under IMPROVING ATTRIBUTES.  I believe text trumps quick reference sheets.  pirat

    The example given there is raising a 4 to a 5 at a cost of 15 karma, or 5x3.

    I would guess that the quick sheet is a type-0 since the text shows the math and the reference on the quick sheet is adjacent to another x5 improvement.

    lol!  what book are you reading?

    pg 264 of the 20th anniversary edition, Shadow Run 4e is about Automated systems, DNA scanners, and Matrix security drunken

    pg 270
    paragraph = Improving Attributes, under the quick guide

    Improving Attributes
    A character can increase Physical or Mental Attributes, Magic,
    Resonance, or Edge by 1 point at a time. The cost of improving a natural
    attribute rating is the new rating x 5. For example, if a character
    wants to improve her Agility from 4 to 5, the cost is 5 x 5, or 25 Karma.
    Characters can only improve Physical and Mental attributes up to
    their natural metatype maximum (6 plus metatype attribute modifiers),
    unless they possess the Exceptional Attribute quality for that attribute
    (see p. 91). Magic or Resonance may only be improved up to 6 plus the
    character’s initiation/submersion grade.
    Raising a natural attribute may raise the augmented attribute value,
    up to the augmented attribute maximum (natural maximum x 1.5).

    both are consistent, this is what I quoted earlier
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  navyik on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:33 am

    Are you referencing 4e improvments or 5e? I'm only using 4e for all of it.

    I was merely using a mechanic that has no activation to show that the force is strong in him but he doesnt really "use" it. I guess my take on this conversion is that trained force users would be mystic adepts and magicians.

    It is not my intent to associate him with a tradition. I can lower the number if you like but its sort of like Josh's objection to a kensai using unarmed strikes. I will just rearange the mechanics to accomplish the same crunch...
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  Chris on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:38 am

    4e only, 20th anniversary edition of 4E

    I am not really even looking at 5e right now, since I like everything I have seen in 4E better

    it's fine, like I said I just don't want everybody running an adept for the reflexes crunch, but I guess if you all do, then the bad guys will all do it too

    cover looks like this



    Last edited by Chris on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  navyik on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:39 am

    Mine is plain 4e. No anniversary. Hmmm...
    My pg. 270 is not a quick sheet.
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  navyik on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:43 am

    Ahhh... Fair enough. Rakhu had heroic surge. Im just trying to replicate that. Why dont we table rule that out, or redefine how it works. I was afraid of not having it when the baddies do.
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  Chris on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:43 am

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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  Chris on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:45 am

    for immediate reference

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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  Chris on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:47 am

    navyik wrote:Ahhh... Fair enough.  Rakhu had heroic surge.  Im just trying to replicate that.  Why dont we table rule that out, or redefine how it works.  I was afraid of not having it when the baddies do.

    it's fine really, being force-awakened will have it's own special problems anyways Twisted Evil
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  navyik on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:51 am

    I've got the anniversary edition now. Will let yiu know when I've re crunched. I will cap reflexes at 2 initiative passes.
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  Chris on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:59 am

    navyik wrote:I've got the anniversary edition now.  Will let yiu know when I've re crunched.  I will cap reflexes at 2 initiative passes.

    oh great, now we can literally be on the same page (of the same book) lol!

    it's ok, don't worry about reflexes. Jedi\Daxx can buy them up, Sharn is likely a force adept too, Matt's droid can buy hard-Wired Reflexes.... the more I think about it, you are right, it's fine. crunch away!
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  navyik on Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:26 pm

    Have a look again. I will change it a little if you advance the timeline.

    How do I handle gear cost? pig
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  Chris on Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:07 am

    navyik wrote:Rakhu 2.0

    Sensitive syst.   +15

    Incompetent palming and etiquette +10

    lol! those are perfect for Rakhu

    I like Rakhu and I kind of hope you keep the "character" regardless of timeline

    I didn't add up all the points, but it looks really good

    I am only going to make people spend BPs = $$ for cyberware. you can have whatever regular gear you want like guns, armor (you have the red mando)
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  navyik on Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:11 am

    Chris wrote:
    navyik wrote:Rakhu 2.0

    Sensitive syst.   +15

    Incompetent palming and etiquette +10

    lol! those are perfect for Rakhu

    I like Rakhu and I kind of hope you keep the "character" regardless of timeline


    I wanted "uncouth" but he has become respected amoung soldiers and is picking up a little confidence in leadership.

    We can freeze him in carbonite if you want...
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  navyik on Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:16 am

    Mandalorian

    Body 6(7)      50 bp  
    Agil   5(9)      40 bp  
    Reac 5 (Cool     40 bp  
    Str     3(4)(6) 20 bp  
    Log   4           20     20k  
    Intu   5           40
    Cha   3            0       25k
    Will    5           40        

    250

    Initiative  13 (3 passes)

    Edge  4    20 bp

    Weapon:         attack   dmg   RC  sh   m   lng  ex
    Aeres alpha   16(18)   6/8     6    50 150 350 550
     Smt lk / gs vnt 3 / chmb / sh pad /

    Full body armor
     Cmlnk/smtlnk/thrmvis/audenhnc/jtpk


    Guts                      5
    Will to live 3       15
    Pain resist 3      15

    305

    Suprathyroid gland 9bp / 0.7 ess.
    Synaptic booster    32bp /  1 ess.
    Platelet factories     5bp / .2 ess
    Muscle toner   3       5bp / .6 ess    
     
    356

    Firearms Grp       4            40
     Automatics     5(14)          
      Spec. Blst rifl   (16)          2k            
     pistols              4(13)          
      Spec. Hvy blst  (15)         2k
    Longarms          4(13)    
    Spec slug           (15)         2k
     
    Hvy.                       2(11)    8k
     Spec repeat blst  (13)     2k

    Demo.                    4(7)      16

    Close combat      1(10)     10
    Unarmed              2(11)      4k
    Spec.  Grapple     (13)        2

    Outdoors grp       1            10k      
    Mechanic grp      1(5)       10k
    Hard electronics   1           4k    
    Infiltration             3(12)     12
    Move silent           (14)       2k
    First aid                 1(5)        4k
    Comb wnds          (7)          2k
    Dodge                    4(13)      16
     Spec. Ranged     (15)         2k
    Perception            5(10)        20
    Spec Vision           (12)       2k 
    Hearing +2 equip  (12)
    Pilot starship       4(12)       16      
    Gunnery                3 (12)      12





    24 knowledge

    Huttese 2
    Basic   N
    Mandalorian? N
    Shrywook 2


    History               2(5)     2
    Spec. Military    (7)      1
    Factions            3(6)      3
    Spec. Mando    (Cool       1
    Tactics               5(Cool     5
    Spec. Cmndo    (10)


    Last edited by navyik on Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:18 am; edited 7 times in total
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  Chris on Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:50 am

    did you drop Adept?

    I don't see it, Magic rating or magic reflexes... but I still see killing hands and Crit strike?
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  navyik on Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:09 am

    Chris wrote:did you drop Adept?

    I don't see it, Magic rating or magic reflexes... but I still see killing hands and Crit strike?

    Rakhu is still at the top of the topic. I'm just quoting it over to a new post to play with another idea.
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    Chris

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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  Chris on Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:13 am

    navyik wrote:
    Chris wrote:did you drop Adept?

    I don't see it, Magic rating or magic reflexes... but I still see killing hands and Crit strike?

    Rakhu is still at the top of the topic.  I'm just quoting it over to a new post to play with another idea.

    ok, cool

    did I send you a 4e character sheet? it might be easier to use than a blank page
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    Re: rakhu 2.0

    Post  navyik on Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:15 am

    Chris wrote:


    ok, cool

    did I send you a 4e character sheet?  it might be easier to use than a blank page

    Nope.

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