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    test fights using SR rules

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    whit10

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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  whit10 on Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:13 pm

    I still can't seem to find how the critical strike works, or rather, how one uses it?

    Do you just apply it when you attack? I would certainly like to use it but wasn't sure how to 'activate' it?
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  Chris on Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:24 pm

    whit10 wrote:I still can't seem to find how the critical strike works, or rather, how one uses it?

    Do you just apply it when you attack?  I would certainly like to use it but wasn't sure how to 'activate' it?

    I don't think there is an activation required, from the text below, it just adds damage to your attacks, much like the d20 lightsaber damage boost

    Chris wrote:
    Critical Strike
    Cost: .25 per level
    This power uses magic to increase the Damage Value of your unarmed
    attacks, as you strike with more proficiency and power. Each
    level of Critical Strike increases the character’s Damage Value in unarmed
    combat by +1.

    like I said, getting hit SUCKS.  imagine a character with an 8 str and like 4 pts in crit strike and a high melee skill...  damage would be 7 + 4 + net hits.... that is min 11 damage, usually more like 13-15 which is enough to kill in 1 blow before soak
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  whit10 on Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:39 pm

    ok, I'll just have to use it next time. I hate retcons
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  Chris on Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:41 pm

    whit10 wrote:ok, I'll just have to use it next time.  I hate retcons

    it's just a test fight.... the whole point is to figure out the rules lol!

    it's just a matter of adding boxes to the damage he already took, the soak roll has been made. these are kind of like Potence from vampire, they are automatically applied, no roll needed, which makes them REALLY powerful, imo. I don't have a copy of Daxx in front of me or I would just add them
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  whit10 on Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:04 pm

    well, he has level 4 critical strike...
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  Chris on Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:49 pm

    whit10 wrote:well, he has level 4 critical strike...

    lol!  like that ork I mentioned....

    Chris wrote:7 boxes of damage
    soak with 4 Body only, since LS penetrates armor
    Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :
    3 + 2 + 1 + 6
    1 hit, so he takes 6 boxes of damage
    with a body of 4, he has 10 total boxes of health
    so that fills up his top 2 rows and puts him at -2 on future rolls

    so that is 11! total boxes of damage
    body 4, soaked 1 hit

    10 boxes out of 10 total = dead (or KO'd maybe, not sure) sith goon #1

    ouch, well that takes care of having to read about AoO and firing into melee rules study

    ok, the other Sith goon moves 10m (free) so he can get a clear line of sight on Daxx

    firing a gun is a simple action, so he can take 2 shots, with a -1 penalty to the 2nd shot at Daxx (this is not using burst or automatic fire rules)

    1st shot
    4 + 5 + 4 + 1 + 3 + 5 + 6 + 4

    3 hits!

    2nd shot
    Result of the throw of dice "7d6" :

    4 + 2 + 3 + 1 + 5 + 4 + 2 = 21

    lol! 1 hit

    how would Daxx like to defend?  remember full defense with Lightsaber Parry uses his complex action from action pass 2  (but he goes again at the top of rd3 anyways)

    Daxx needs to make 2 rolls, 1 for each shot, no penalty or degrading dice on defense
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  whit10 on Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:10 pm

    Full Defense, I think it's still 8d6 to defend?

    1st shot:

    Roll(8d6)+0:
    3,2,1,1,6,4,5,6

    3 successes

    2nd shot:

    Roll(8d6)+0:
    1,5,4,3,3,5,2,5

    same thing... 3 (unless, again, I'm missing something, lol)
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  Chris on Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:49 am

    Daxx deflects both shots

    redirect?

    if not, top of rd 3 and Daxx is up again
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  whit10 on Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:23 am

    yes... but I can't friggin find what I need to roll for that. lol

    And as to your comment about the 33% thing... maybe I am misunderstanding your point but, if you can only hit a target 33% of the time or hit someone square with a melee weapon at that percentage, you should find another job. That's pretty piss-poor accuracy IMO. (but, again, I may me missing your point)

    I seem to remember ways to drop target numbers in the original and 2nd editions of this game. Is that not present anymore, or is that just for cyber ware or something? It is a weapon made of pure energy after all... just sayin'
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  Chris on Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:28 am

    whit10 wrote:yes... but I can't friggin find what I need to roll for that. lol

    And as to your comment about the 33% thing... maybe I am misunderstanding your point but, if you can only hit a target 33% of the time or hit someone square with a melee weapon at that percentage, you should find another job.  That's pretty piss-poor accuracy IMO. (but, again, I may me missing your point)

    I seem to remember ways to drop target numbers in the original and 2nd editions of this game.  Is that not present anymore, or is that just for cyber ware or something?  It is a weapon made of pure energy after all... just sayin'

    redirect = agility + lightsaber parry

    you are definitely not grasping the mathematics....  it is only a 33% if you roll 1d6.  Each die rolled is a separate event, so you multiply the probabilities:


    think about 2 dice being rolled....  you have 36 unique possible combinations.  look at this chart below and count how many times a 5 or a 6 comes up in ANY combination



    a 5 or 6 comes up in 20 possible combinations out of 36

    20\36 = ~55%

    another way to look at it is to ask "how many times will a 5 or 6 NOT come up on 2 dice?"  

    chances of NOT a 5 or 6 on 1 die  = 4\6
    chances of NOT a 5 or 6 on 2nd die = 4\6

    4\6 x 4\6 = 16\36 times that a 5 or 6 does not show up on 2 dice
    subtract 16 from 36 to figure out how many it WILL show up = 20\36 times or ~55%

    for 3 dice rolled take 16\36 x 4\6 = 64\216 to not get a 5 or 6
    152\216 that a 5 or 6 will show up = ~70%

    for 4 dice 64\216 x 4\6 = 256\1296 to not get a 5 or 6
    1296 - 256 = 1040\1296 = ~80.25%

    the % of getting a 5 or 6 keeps going up the more dice you roll  

    this is why you can buy hits, just like "taking 10" in d20.  for every 4 dice you have in a skill, you can buy 1 hit in a non-stress related test.

    Target Numbers were all over the place in 1E, they got rid of that crap and stabilized the math by making everything a set 5.  cyberware now adds dice to rolls (unless I am missing\mis-reading it)
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  whit10 on Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:16 am

    fine, I suck at math. It's still overly cumbersome...

    moving on

    10d6 redirect

    Roll(10d6)+0:
    6,2,4,4,5,4,4,3,2,6

    ...and my math is not that off at all... still getting 3 out of 10 on average.
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  Chris on Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:35 am

    whit10 wrote:fine, I suck at math.  It's still overly cumbersome...

    moving on

    10d6 redirect

    Roll(10d6)+0:
    6,2,4,4,5,4,4,3,2,6

    ...and my math is not that off at all... still getting 3 out of 10 on average.

    /beats head into desk/

    but it only takes 1 hit to be a success.


    3 hits to redirect vs his ranged defense, he doesn't want to lose his only action, so he will just defend using Reaction of 4

    Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :

    3 + 6 + 3 + 1

    1 hit, so you end up with 2 net hits, enough to hit + 1 box of damage

    I think I said their rifles did 6p + 1 = 7 boxes of damage

    he gets Body 4 + his hvy armor 8 to soak

    Result of the throw of dice "12d6" :

    4 + 3 + 1 + 5 + 1 + 3 + 4 + 6 + 6 + 3 + 5 + 2

    4 hits on soak, so he takes 3 boxes of damage and is now -1

    that was the redirect from Sith's shot, which used Daxx's 2nd action of rd2

    rd3

    Daxx
    goon
    Daxx
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  whit10 on Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:49 am

    'beat's head against desk'??

    Now you know how I feel reading through this book... I won't tell you how many times I've thought to myself "why did they do this?"

    anyway... move over to the other member of Daft Punk and chop him down.

    Roll(10d6)+0:
    6,2,1,4,6,2,3,6,6,3

    OMG!!! more than 3 successes! I should go buy a lottery ticket! Razz
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  Chris on Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:06 pm

    whit10 wrote:'beat's head against desk'??

    Now you know how I feel reading through this book... I won't tell you how many times I've thought to myself "why did they do this?"

    anyway...  move over to the other member of Daft Punk and chop him down.

    Roll(10d6)+0:
    6,2,1,4,6,2,3,6,6,3

    OMG!!! more than 3 successes!  I should go buy a lottery ticket!  Razz

    shouldn't it be 14d? if so just add 4d to your roll, you might get 5 Wink

    he gets reaction + dodge = 8d

    Result of the throw of dice "8d6" :

    3 + 3 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 1

    lol! and he just botched..... no hits and 1/2 dice are 1s

    it doesn't matter, he is toast

    I think we can wrap up this test fight
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  whit10 on Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:20 pm

    hah! Daxx is triumphant over Daft Punk! Take that you bearded disco-loving weirdos! Very Happy

    That was actually helpful. but, it's still back to the drawing board... move object and other things have to be figured out.

    Which leads me to my next question.... so, for the sake of argument, I put one Magic Point into Sorcery and leave the rest for Adept powers (I guess that's how it works) what does he get as far as "spells"?
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  Chris on Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:30 pm

    you have to buy spells with BPs or karma, but I don't remember the costs

    it means that you can cast any spell with a force of 1 = so magic + sorcery of 1 dice
    with regular stun drain

    or go up to x2 force and suffer physical damage drain

    the force of the spell also limits the total # of hits that are possible. I don't think you will be happy with 1 pt in spellcasting, unless you look at spells and only need 1 hit on them. Like I said initially, i think Jedi\Sith are going to be Mystic Adepts with a roughly equal split in magic\adept abilities

    if you keep Initiation, which is good, I think something between 3\5 - 4\4 - 5\3 is going to let you cast effectively as a minor caster (not a full mage of course) and have enough points to buy some good adept abilities.

    notice - many spells duplicate adept powers, so if you have the spell, you don't need to spend the adept points on it - like enhance attributes, enhanced senses, enhanced reflexes. the trade off is the time to cast vs having it be 'always on'
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  whit10 on Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:40 pm

    ok then. So a jedi akin to the SW game is impossible. Good to know.

    I probably won't even bother then... they kinda suck. Most of the adept powers really aren't worth cost and spells with a force of one are seemingly pointless (unless I'm missing something). I'll have to look everything over again (sigh)
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  Chris on Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:58 pm

    whit10 wrote:ok then.  So a jedi akin to the SW game is impossible.  Good to know.

    I probably won't even bother then... they kinda suck.  Most of the adept powers really aren't worth cost and spells with a force of one are seemingly pointless (unless I'm missing something).  I'll have to look everything over again (sigh)

    Sounds good, because I am tired of having the same conversation over and over. lol!

    I think a fine Jedi\Sith can easily be made

    3 adept powers = reflexes 1 (1.5), missle parry 4 (1), crit strike 2 (.5)
    5 pts for casting, so rolling 8 + 5 = 13d with max 5 hits, plenty for spells like

    Punch = force strike
    Fling = force push
    influence = affect mind
    levitate = move object
    healing - heal self
    inc attributes
    detect magic - kind of See Force
    analyze truth
    detect life

    that would be more like a counselor, just go 4\4 or 5\3 for more adept powers and you get a guardian

    but do what you want....
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  whit10 on Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:23 pm

    isn't it a complex action to use spells? (jedi powers) Also, are you allowing specializations? (since they aren't allowed, for dumb reason, at the time of character creation)

    ...and we will have to agree to disagree with your statement about their powers
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  Chris on Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:40 pm

    whit10 wrote:isn't it a complex action to use spells? (jedi powers)  Also, are you allowing specializations? (since they aren't allowed, for dumb reason, at the time of character creation)
    ...and we will have to agree to disagree with your statement about their powers

    casting spells is a complex action, yes
    see page 179 for a complete list of magic actions. (centering is free, for example)


    Specializations are completely legal at creation, they cost 2 BP each = super cheap!

    from pg 84

    Sp ecializations
    Skills are general—your character can shoot any pistol with the Pistols
    skill, or drive any car with the Pilot Ground Craft skill. If you want
    your character to have a signature ability, something he is better at than
    everyone else, you can give him a specialization.
    For example, a character with the Pistols skill can choose to specialize
    in Revolvers, which means he’s a crack shot at using revolvers,
    but not quite as good while firing semi-automatics. If your character
    has a specialization, he adds 2 extra dice to the skill test whenever the
    specialization applies (see Specializations, p. 121).
    Specializations only cost 2 BP. You can only acquire specializations
    to skills you currently possess. Characters may only have one
    specialization per skill. Characters may not purchase specializations
    for skill groups.


    Since I had this same type of conversation with Alan on the other thread..... what book are you reading? (honestly, not a snide question). Alan had 4e, but not the 20th anniversary 4e.
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  whit10 on Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:23 pm

    20th anniversary... maybe I just missed it.  Thanks for the clarification

    can specialization be counted with lightsabers? Just need the clarification

    I think I'm going to build some kind of tank in all honesty that also might have adept powers (since we're not doing much with cyberware?)... I don't know, I'll have to look things over later. I guess it depends on armor or what he could buy with spells (which doesn't look that promising)
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  Chris on Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:43 pm

    whit10 wrote:20th anniversary... maybe I just missed it.  Thanks for the clarification

    can specialization be counted with lightsabers?  Just need the clarification

    I think I'm going to build some kind of tank in all honesty that also might have adept powers (since we're not doing much with cyberware?)... I don't know, I'll have to look things over later.  I guess it depends on armor or what he could buy with spells (which doesn't look that promising)

    I linked the correct book in the other thread, direct download.

    cyberware depends a lot on which timeline you all chose. the later time would definitely have cyberware

    there is also a magic book that adds like 18 traditions and 43 adept powers
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  whit10 on Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:55 pm

    so there's another book now? (sigh)

    I've always thought that, if a game needs 5 revisions, there just might be a problem somewhere. But what do I know

    I'm sure I should know this but what the hell is a tradition? It that the whole "sorcerer, conjurer, adept" thing?

    More adept powers could be interesting
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  whit10 on Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:58 pm

    What thread is it in?  I can't seem to find this link you speak of
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  Chris on Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:08 pm

    whit10 wrote:so there's another book now?  (sigh)
    I've always thought that, if a game needs 5 revisions, there just might be a problem somewhere.  But what do I know
    I'm sure I should know this but what the hell is a tradition?  It that the whole "sorcerer, conjurer, adept" thing?
    More adept powers could be interesting

    D&D red box
    AD&D
    2e
    3.x
    4e
    Pathfinder
    new D&D

    yup, problem with the system lol!

    just like PF and all other games, there are extra books for more cyberware, more magic, more gun. nothing new here


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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  whit10 on Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:24 pm

    (snort) I don't really count the first 2 versions of D&D anymore... nice idea, terrible execution. PF finally got it right. New books to expand the current system are one thing... WoC is out of their minds trying to release a damned 5th edition given how badly 4th edition bombed.

    but I suppose you have a point. However, I'd like to speak to whomever made up the last three SR books and tell 'em to make up their fucking minds

    thanks for the link... I'll have to wait till I'm at home, no way in hell I'm downloading a torrent at work.
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  Chris on Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:31 pm

    right on, we should move any further rules questions to the other thread to keep them together
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    Re: test fights using SR rules

    Post  whit10 on Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:41 pm

    word

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