Table Talk

yep, that's why I wanted to switch it. lol....

I can't imagine Arcana coming up too much (but who knows). He doesn't really have any other skills that are worth much, not too bad on Thieves' tools though

navyik wrote:I But he will insist that he should get to do everything.

enthusiastic trap bait disarmers are the best kind


I know today might not be the best day to suggest this, but.... Alan has done superbly as Captain Hawkes in the pirate game. I think someone else should act as "party leader" for the dungeon.

At least until Matt joins, that leaves Josh in command, which seems to fit either the Pal or Wiz. Some intellectual decision is probably better than following a kender's wander lust in a deadly trap-filled dungeon.

ok, I'll try.

I made my characters specifically not to be leaders. The Blue Avenger, however can push the story along without being a leader.

navyik wrote:
This may be a good place to ask how the “underdark” bonus to wis and int checks works...

here is the text of the ability

Natural Explorer
At 1st level, you are adept at traveling and surviving in the wilderness and particularly familiar with one type of natural environment. Choose one type of favored terrain: arctic, coast, desert, forest, grassland, mountain, swamp, or the Underdark. When you make an Intelligence (Investigation, Nature) or Wisdom (Animal Handling, Perception, Survival) check while in your related to your favored terrain, your proficiency bonus is doubled if you are using one of those skill that you're proficient in, or you add half your proficiency bonus (rounded down) if you are not proficient. While traveling for an hour or more in your favored terrain, you gain the following benefits:

Difficult terrain doesn't slow your group's travel.
Your group can't become lost except by magical means.
Even when you are engaged in another activity while traveling (such as foraging, navigating, or tracking), you remain alert to danger.
If you are traveling alone, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
When you forage, you find twice as much food as you normally would.
While tracking other creatures, you also learn their exact number, their sizes, and how long ago they passed through the area.


Underdark with a capital U is a specific realm, like an underground continent in Forgotten Realms.  I would say, for the sake of not being a dick, that it applies to any natural underground area like a cave.   To me, natural environments are not exclusive.  So a cave, by the coast, in the arctic would count as underground, coastal and arctic.  A ranger could be familiar with 1 of those 3 terrain types and be all good.  I would count tropical rain-forest and jungle under the forest group.  etc

However, I don't think any dungeon that is created by intelligent beings is considered a "natural environment" or a "wilderness" area.  Note there isn't an urban or city environment either, for the same reasons.

Now if some creatures inhabited a natural cave network and just made it their lair, then sure any appropriate terrain type would count.  If it was a cave network in a mountain, in the desert, then any of those 3 would apply.  But a dungeon dug out of the jungle is not a natural environment, though the surrounding jungle certainly would be.  

Does that answer your question or was it something else?

It does

feel free to change Blue's terrain type if you want, though there are some areas that are natural underground in the Tomb, just FYI

I suspect we need to Defeat the skeleton to get a key.

yeah, same here... belatedly realized that

not to be a jerk, but please do keep track of your expendable items

Josh's guys have 10 torches each, used 2 so far. each burns for an hour, with 1 currently burning in the Fountain and 1 at the bottom of level 4. 18\20 remaining

Baldric used his 1 vial of holy water

Blue put 1 of his 2 flasks of oil into the Lantern of Revealing (6 hrs can turn off\on - not really an issue) more just the 1 flask of oil left

driftglobe doesn't run out, but Daylight once per day



arrow and bolts recovery rule

You can use a weapon that has the Ammunition property to make a ranged Attack only if you have Ammunition to fire from the weapon. Each time you Attack with the weapon, you expend one piece of Ammunition. Drawing the Ammunition from a Quiver, case, or other container is part of the Attack (you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon). At the end of the battle, you can recover half your expended Ammunition by taking a minute to Search the battlefield. If you use a weapon that has the Ammunition property to make a melee Attack, you treat the weapon as an Improvised Weapon (see “Improvised Weapons” later in the section). A sling must be loaded to deal any damage when used in this way.


thrown weapons are not ammunition, so they are always recovered from regular use

My intention was to list the oil flasks as additional to what Blue topped off in the lamp before starting out. I’m tracking the minutes of oil and of flight.

navyik wrote:My intention was to list the oil flasks as additional to what Blue topped off in the lamp before starting out. I’m tracking the minutes of oil and of flight.

fair enough on the oil, 2 flasks in the sack and 1 in the lamp


honestly, don't track minutes of light and flight, unless you want to. each turn of flight\light is just 6 seconds, lol

that is too much nitpickery, even for me.


torches, arrows, rope, oil, holy water, maybe pitons if you guys them, etc. just the big stuff

Alan, I had a thought whilst walking Hobbes.

...we're playing this asshole's game here. He's just waiting for us and will continue with the irritating traps, puzzles, monsters, etc.

I'm all about changing the game and making him play by our rules (if this is possible).

Ideas??? I thought, if we had the gear and guys for it, that we should start by demolishing part of this tomb. It's a "still-gestating" idea

I agree that we are playing his game. Some of the puzzles seem mandatory but others may be gratuitous. Characters might think it best to barge down to the depths immediately to finish it, but as gamers we know that we need to level up before we get down there. But we should assume that everything is a trap.

Josh - that is a fabulous observation!
Alan also has a valid point.

There is 1 major element that you haven't encountered yet which may help you find a balance. It is tied to the history of Omu and should be fairly obvious once you see it.

whit10 wrote:ah, well at least we can get some armor for Blue again....

ewwww! that's like twice-died-in armor. ya gotta figure that there is some funk like JC's feet emanating from that stuff

that IS a very good point Alan. And frankly, one more level would do all our guys some good (assuming they survive).

I have much more to say about this that is not actually related to what we're currently doing. But that's for another time...


..and yes Chris, it would probably smell horrible. His choice... lol

Awesome job of tying the one guy up with the grasping hand Josh. Now use your action to blast the one Blue roasted with a cantrip or disengage and get clear

that's what I was trying to figure out...

If Adder gets away from the one that is grappled, the party should be able to clear the other two out of our interior before they attack again. Then he can do his wizard sh!t to end the fight. 🤩

oh yeah, he's going to back up and try to avoid contact... getting pounded! (kinda like Blue)

ok, I've held back for long enough....

It's one thing to "design a very difficult module/dungeon" or what have you.

It's quite another thing to say "fuck you" to the players and guarantee that no one can complete this monstrosity. No Remove Curse? Screw that.

What the fuck is the point of all this????

I mean, I have better ways of committing masochism if need be...

It certainly is a frustrating new challenge. But you could role play the Paladin who is unnerved by the failure of the gods to oppose this wicked force. . I suspect a lot of the machanics gamers have taken for granted for 40 years will be stood on their heads. I consider it a challenge before all the human race and I never loooooooose!

actually, I don't think it matters.  This is so stacked against any PC in this game (since they weakened many classes, overall) that you're set up for failure if you even get to the fucking Lich (and I'm sure they're crazy powerful in this system, as they should be).  

It's one thing to make a really, REALLY, tough module or whatever. It's quite another to say "ok players, there is pretty much no chance of winning this... or your character won't really be worth playing at the end of it for the big fight due to "permanent" effects (what hog-wash is that? That was almost always due to god-like effects in other games).

In other words; this is like what Chris and I did to our Shadowrun party about 30 years ago when they had gotten too powerful. It didn't turn out well...

At this point, running stock Ranger, Wizard, Fighter, Rogue, etc. without any personalized changes is about as effective as spending the time to make something you actually like.

I'm just pissed about this "deck stacked against us" crap.

...and yeah, I read that earlier and that's how I saw this "Soulmonger" crap

I mean... really, the only type of character that's "geared" in any way for this nonsense is a Necromancer. And Wizards are puny and weak, so yeah....

navyikToday at 7:19 pm
by navyik
https://servimg.com/view/17005246/2217

It’s very specific to permanent hit point loss. You can still remove curse on other things.

I think Baldric is formidable in combat. Working as a team we took down 6 nasty undead with life drain and only lost 4 hp permanently from the whole party. I made Blue quite resilient. I’m not worried yet. And we are learning that pretty much everything is a trap.

I'm not going to bother to rant about it any more. It's my dumb-ass that didn't see that bit and didn't build accordingly. It's fucking bullshit; but whatever, I know my protest will be ignored as all protests are....


Baldric is only useful if he has spell slots to use for smite, other-wise he's a low-grade heal-bot with a sword.

But enough ranting or whatever

What kind of friends would we be if we couldn’t let you rant?

You have hunters mark. You’re as capable as Tynman

yeah, I know, but that's a spell - he has 2 1st level slots left.  I mean, I'm fine with a short rest and then no more than three encounters (fights) at most before a long rest. Actually, 2 would be better IMHO... but that's me

and thanks!

If you didn't expect the deck to be stacked against you in a module called "tomb of annihilation" that in the book describes it as a "meatgrinder" module... then I don't know what to tell you

Alan is correct, it is not that curses in general cannot be removed, but it is specifically no raise dead, no resurrection and no drained HP can be restored.

Now, to be fair and honest here... which I hope you don't take as a dig or insult.... you guys were having a fairly easy time of the dungeon until you did NOT follow the clues and bumbled into the ambush of the wights. You could have completely avoided that fight 100% if you had just followed "don the masks or be seen" which is what Alan even tried to play out in character.

This dungeon will absolutely punish the characters for sloppy play, charging ahead and\or not following the clues to solve the puzzles. Those encounters, the ones with clues, are x2 or x3 harder than the other encounters.

yeah, you're right on the first part. No question (I get the resurrection and raise dead part... but the HP thing is just bullocks)

As for point two... no comment. Alan can guide my guys on the puzzles; he seems to have a head for it.

Meh. It’s fun to experience the consequences of poor communication sometimes. I should have been more clear on what I was doing. It is easy to miss those subtleties when I am role playing the strong silent guy.

It's not the end of the world, it just makes it a bit harder.

Baldy is far more than a healbot with a sword, btw.

+4 to all saves for everyone is simply HUGE in a dungeon full of traps
he has a high AC and does good sustained damage, even without smites

that +4 turned DC 13 CON saves into DC 9 for life drain


Adder isn't weak by any means either. He got caught out of position in a melee scrum. You chose to go offensive with his casting of Hand, which worked out very well. He could have cast improved inviso on himself or teleported out of the melee to save himself. He was selfless and took a few lumps for the team.

Like Alan said, you guys are learning as you go. Next time you see Wights, you will know to fight from range or make a bottleneck with your tanks or a different tactic.

lol... there are all of those things.

I'm more just irritated that I burned as many smites as I did. For whatever stupid-ass reason, I thought they got them back with a short rest

Hunter's Mark is really a good option instead of smites. extra d6 to each hit, it can moved and lasts an entire fight.

yeah, that's his other "ace in the hole" besides the Hill Giant Str. potion he has. Like I said earlier. I think a long rest will be needed after one or two more actual fights...

We’ll conserve better after our first long rest.

I never gave this feat a second look, until the family started playing this module


Dungeon Delver Alert to the hidden traps and secret doors found in many dungeons, you gain the following benefits:
• When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum number of hit points you regain from the roll equals twice your Constitution modifier (minimum of 2).
• You have advantage on Wisdom (Perception) and Intelligence (Investigation) checks made to detect the presence of secret doors.
• You have advantage on saving throws made to avoid or resist traps.
• You have resistance to the damage dealt by traps.
• You can search for traps while travelling at a normal pace, instead of only at a slow pace.

probably not worth it in a regular, open-world style game, but for a dedicated dungeon crawl... any class would be good with it, lol

actually, you need to look at that again... the HD part is actually a part of the Feat "Durable"

sorry man.. I got excited too. Check the way the page is written.

ah, you are right, oops




Alert to the hidden traps and secret doors found in many dungeons, you gain the following benefits:

You have advantage on Wisdom (Perception) and Intelligence (Investigation) made to detect the presence of secret doors.

You have advantage on saving throws made to avoid or resist traps.

You have resistance to the damage dealt by traps.

You can search for traps while traveling at a normal pace, instead of only at a slow pace

yeah, the way they did some of the text 'wrap-around' on the pages is really annoying. I've had that get me more than once.

That would be an insane feat otherwise

the HD part doesn't detract that much in my opinion, it is still really strong

oh, not disagreeing at all. Just saying it would be really friggin awesome if it did that as well.

yeah, for sure, lol

ya know... a Bard and Rogue combo (with some inter-locking skills and what not) would be a really well built pair for this thing... with that Feat and both of them having Luck.. lol

(disclaimer)

I'm sorry that I've been so pissy the last couple days with this. I'm not doing well with the collapse of American civilization (which is what I'm calling this now) and this has been a source of stress rather than amusement due to the fucking wank-weasel that wrote this module.

I will try to stifle myself in the future and just go with it.

I am sorry that you are not enjoying the module. We can take a break or stop or play something else.

The module is supposed to be really hard and a different kind of challenge than our story-driven games.

It doesn't matter if a character dies. In fact, I would expect it. Just role up something else and keep playing!

yeah, just keep making lambs for the slaughter....

quick question; if you 'fail' the save with that Ring, that's it right? You can't make the save later on to shut her up, right? (was thinking of this just in case we run into shit with Greater Invisibility)