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That is to say - Gray. Very, very gray.
That is to say - Gray. Very, very gray.
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whit10
Chris
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SW to SR conversion questions and character ideas
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whit10- Posts : 6614
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huh?
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whit10 wrote:huh?
Unknown interrogative. Re-state query.
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MAS wrote:whit10 wrote:huh?
Unknown interrogative. Re-state query.
are you actually going to be a droid now or still the mini-me alien in a droid body (circa MiB1)?
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Mini-Alien, because the mechanics work better that way. However, the species' high context language does not translate well into Galactic common. When processed through the communication nodes of the pilot's Operations and Reconnaissance Chassis, it ends up sounding more like simplified droid speech.
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ooh... now I want to play the wookie tech so I could mess with Matt. lol
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MAS wrote:Mini-Alien, because the mechanics work better that way. However, the species' high context language does not translate well into Galactic common. When processed through the communication nodes of the pilot's Operations and Reconnaissance Chassis, it ends up sounding more like simplified droid speech.
ok, cool. Your race is probably from the same area of the Fringe as a race called the Gree. They are a stange bunch, but very technologically advanced. They also cannot speak common, but make heavy use of protocol droids. It is rumored that the Gree were the race that first developed hyper-space technology.
The Gree's fingerprints (well, tentacle prints) often go unnoticed, even though they are all over the galaxy. For examples: the air-processors used to purify the air on the smog-ridden lower 100 levels of Coruscant are of Gree design. The Tabanna gas collectors on Bespin are of Gree design.
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The Prime are much like the Gree, except that their bodies are not swollen large with barbarian stupidity.
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MAS wrote:The Prime are much like the Gree, except that their bodies are not swollen large with barbarian stupidity.
The Gree are quite fond of a particular delicacy they call Ortolan. Much like the French delicacy of the same name on Earth, the Gree consume the tiny members of the prime, bones and all. The consumption of Ortulan was banned centuries ago, sadly that did little to curb the practice among the elite of the Gree Enclave. Unlike the French, the Gree feel no shame or need to cover their heads while enjoying a rare treat.
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Does this mean that Matt will surrender every time he's encountered by enemies? 
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whit10 wrote:Does this mean that Matt will surrender every time he's encountered by enemies?
Matt is the bird
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rofl! The Gree are the Prime's mortal enemies!
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what type of small creature are the Prime?
mammalian, reptilian, avian, arthropod.....
find me a good picture
(for the menu)
mammalian, reptilian, avian, arthropod.....
find me a good picture
(for the menu)
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Liquid dwelling arthropod.
whit10- Posts : 6614
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Matt's a shrimp? This is going to be too much fun!
... didn't know he was a character in Finding Nemo. lol
... didn't know he was a character in Finding Nemo. lol
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whit10 wrote:Matt's a shrimp? This is going to be too much fun!
... didn't know he was a character in Finding Nemo. lol
ROFL!
The concept is that he is a rigger who never leaves his vehicle. It will be spec'd out with various sub drones that can detach from the main chassis.
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whatever you have to tell yourself, shrimpy.
I really hope none of the other characters like seafood.
I really hope none of the other characters like seafood.
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MAS wrote:
Liquid dwelling arthropod.
Live Maine Prime.... num num num..... the Gree like to dip your living kin into various pots filled with herb-flavored oils, kind of like Fondue (without the cheese)
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I'm thinking the Faleen might find them tasty too.
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whit10 wrote:whatever you have to tell yourself, shrimpy.
I really hope none of the other characters like seafood.
Rule #1: No throwing my character "on the barbie".
Rule #2: No coating my character in coconut batter.
Rule #3: No "Bubba gump" like droning on and on about shrimp recipes.
So, back to the concept of the high context language. The Prime consider themselves to be the one, true, pure species in the galaxy - hence the translation of their name into something that is more of a concept (Prime Numbers) than a label. The prime consider all other species to be "Composite number" species. Any enemy species (like the Gree) are negative species. The universe is an equation, and the Prime are seeking to solve it, so they can transcend into post-physical forms.
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MAS wrote:
Rule #1: No throwing my character "on the barbie".
Rule #2: No coating my character in coconut batter.
Rule #3: No "Bubba gump" like droning on and on about shrimp recipes.
So, back to the concept of the high context language. The Prime consider themselves to be the one, true, pure species in the galaxy - hence the translation of their name into something that is more of a concept (Prime Numbers) than a label. The prime consider all other species to be "Composite number" species. Any enemy species (like the Gree) are negative species. The universe is an equation, and the Prime are seeking to solve it, so they can transcend into post-physical forms.
Good stuff
I was toying with some math-language fun with the Gree as well. They are more Geometry\Physics orientated than Algebra\Calculus like the Prime. Kind of like the "Darmac and Jalad at Tanagra" episdoe of ST:TNG. They speak common, but they speak in geometric\physics terms, so there is no real translation, just a contextual understanding.
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oh, you don't get off that easy... I'll carry an extra can of butter with me and several metal skewers.
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Luckily for me, no one will actually know what a Prime looks like.
Some concept art for a quad walker main chassis. The weapons would not be quite as obvious as they are on some of these.
Some concept art for a quad walker main chassis. The weapons would not be quite as obvious as they are on some of these.
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Chris wrote:MAS wrote:
Rule #1: No throwing my character "on the barbie".
Rule #2: No coating my character in coconut batter.
Rule #3: No "Bubba gump" like droning on and on about shrimp recipes.
So, back to the concept of the high context language. The Prime consider themselves to be the one, true, pure species in the galaxy - hence the translation of their name into something that is more of a concept (Prime Numbers) than a label. The prime consider all other species to be "Composite number" species. Any enemy species (like the Gree) are negative species. The universe is an equation, and the Prime are seeking to solve it, so they can transcend into post-physical forms.
Good stuff
I was toying with some math-language fun with the Gree as well. They are more Geometry\Physics orientated than Algebra\Calculus like the Prime. Kind of like the "Darmac and Jalad at Tanagra" episdoe of ST:TNG. They speak common, but they speak in geometric\physics terms, so there is no real translation, just a contextual understanding.
Very cool. this is the stuff that comes from reading/watching piles of sci fi and fantasy books/shows, lol! Are the Gree your invention, or something from the expanded universe?
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MAS wrote:
Very cool. this is the stuff that comes from reading/watching piles of sci fi and fantasy books/shows, lol! Are the Gree your invention, or something from the expanded universe?
I like the legs with tracks on them and the 6 legged variants, but just my taste.
The Gree are an EU race, as pictured. They are barely mentioned in the SWTOR game, they are basically just a quest giver on Coruscant. There is a series of quests, given by a protocol droid of theirs to fix the air purification systems, which gives any class a reason to follow a similar path. They don't eat other races.
They will have an expanded presence in my story and will probably be a bit more on the sinister side. I am altering their backstory to fit my alternate universe, since I need some non-sith threats.
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I will be playing Spike. He is ready for your fine toothed comb.
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Since I know not everyone is reading each other's character pages, I wanted to repost some stuff from "Crunch-master-flash's" page, that I want everyone to be aware of
It is up to the party.... but either everyone needs to be using all the books or we can just limit the game to the Core Book while we learn it. It is really about how much time people want to put into build-design and research. I don't care either way.
Chris wrote:navyik wrote:
Adept power:
Imp.reflx 3.0* (25% discount warriors way)
Imp. Ability 2 .75(25% discount).
Ambidex 5
Mystic Adept 10
Initiate +3 "inquisitor" group+ordeal 29k
I see, ok. You have obviously drilled very deeply into many books for each detail in your character. I am sorry if it wasn't clear, but when I asked for everyone to show the points they spent on their character, my intention was for the players to make it easier for me to check the characters. We are all new to the system and this is a learning process for all of us.
just saying "group + ordeal 29k" doesn't really tell me what I need to know, the way this doesnavyik wrote:See group initiation and initiation ordeal (geasa) in street magic p.50
40% discountChris wrote:I kind of thought this was just a power creep in a later book....navyik wrote:
The 25% discount is legit, but I can only select certain powers and so many powers to which it applies. I am allowed 2 powers from the list given at the discount.
FAVORED POWERS
Way bonuses and discounted powers exist partially
to help adepts “keep up with the Joneses” as a counter-
balance to the discounts available to other characters for
cyberware packages, grades of augmentation, Qualities,
and other methods available to lower the Essence cost
of various implants.
You are searching books for specific things related to your character(s). I am trying to absorb many books as they relate to all characters, GM info and monitor for balance. I had hoped for a bit more explanation and transparency for 2 main reasons:
1 - other players can learn # crunches from each other. Josh, for example, doesn't have any discounted powers\abilities etc on his Mystic Adept. I bet he would be interested in learning how to make his character stronger. Likewise, maybe Matt and Dan would see the comment about how the later books gave discount %s to "keep up with the Joneses" since it seems Augmentation\Arsenal came out prior to Street Magic or Way of the XYZ
2 - honestly, part of what I want to see is for balance purposes. I realize that non of us have played 4e ever, but we all know what has happened with D&D 2e, Vampire\WW\Mage, D&D 3.0\3.5 and now even PF.... as time goes on, companies want to keep making money, so they release more and more books and there is an inevitable Power Creep. Players get stronger and stronger as new books come out.
All the discounts are great as long as everyone (GM included) is using them. If only 1 or 2 people use them, then it skews the balance of the party and the game as a whole. Encounter challenges are too easy, if the GM doesn't crunch all the discounts into his NPCs.
It's a fine line and I am not trying to cripple your designs, so that is why I wanted to see everything up front and get a sense of balance.
It is up to the party.... but either everyone needs to be using all the books or we can just limit the game to the Core Book while we learn it. It is really about how much time people want to put into build-design and research. I don't care either way.
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I'm not going to vote against including other books but I don't know that this will be able to help me much? I don't have the points to initiate anyway as it is... magic sucks up a TON of points (spells, magic rating, will, etc.)
Not against it, just not sure just HOW it helps my dude?
If I'm reading it right, as of right now, it would allow Shivak to Initiate, to level one, for 9 Karma instead of 11? Is that right? He could do that instead of buying a Power Focus, but that's the only benefit that I see right now (assuming that I'm reading this right)
Not against it, just not sure just HOW it helps my dude?
If I'm reading it right, as of right now, it would allow Shivak to Initiate, to level one, for 9 Karma instead of 11? Is that right? He could do that instead of buying a Power Focus, but that's the only benefit that I see right now (assuming that I'm reading this right)
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I'd like to have all books open. I'll need source books to properly execute my concept. What I'll do is copy/paste descriptions into the character sheet.
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whit10 wrote:I'm not going to vote against including other books but I don't know that this will be able to help me much? I don't have the points to initiate anyway as it is... magic sucks up a TON of points (spells, magic rating, will, etc.)
Not against it, just not sure just HOW it helps my dude?
If I'm reading it right, as of right now, it would allow Shivak to Initiate, to level one, for 9 Karma instead of 11? Is that right? He could do that instead of buying a Power Focus, but that's the only benefit that I see right now (assuming that I'm reading this right)
the point is that you are probably missing a lot of discounts designed for mages.
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I get that... I just haven't been able to find anything that helps at the moment. This fight will probably reveal some flaws here and there... having to wait an action (or just being prepared for combat) means that I nearly always have to cast Increased Reflexes 1st. It wouldn't be bad to figure a way around that.
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whit10 wrote:I get that... I just haven't been able to find anything that helps at the moment. This fight will probably reveal some flaws here and there... having to wait an action (or just being prepared for combat) means that I nearly always have to cast Increased Reflexes 1st. It wouldn't be bad to figure a way around that.
Read the part on SPIKE's page about how I was wrong about how Mystic Adepts use Magic.
I think you can put more points into Adept powers and worry less about Magic rating, if you want. Then you could just buy up some Adept Reflexes at -25% of the cost (Way of the Adept) if you pick a "Way". you also get other discounts and bonuses for only 10BP
I agree though 100% losing 1 action pass to cast "Imp Reflexes" is rough
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Wait a minute... so your overall magic score is still the Force Rating, not just what you have divided up between Adept Powers and Spellcasting (or whatever).. is that right?!
That changes quite a few things... as does the "way of the adept" stuff
It would allow Shivak to have Increased Reflexes through Adept powers instead, they act like Wired Reflexes (always going) as the description points out. That would correct the problem I've pointed out
That changes quite a few things... as does the "way of the adept" stuff
It would allow Shivak to have Increased Reflexes through Adept powers instead, they act like Wired Reflexes (always going) as the description points out. That would correct the problem I've pointed out
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Alan's find about Magic Rating also clears up why you would have cyberware and magic... you can still have a decent amount of dice for spell casting.
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whit10 wrote:Wait a minute... so your overall magic score is still the Force Rating, not just what you have divided up between Adept Powers and Spellcasting (or whatever).. is that right?!
That changes quite a few things... as does the "way of the adept" stuff
It would allow Shivak to have Increased Reflexes through Adept powers instead, they act like Wired Reflexes (always going) as the description points out. That would correct the problem I've pointed out
I thought you might like it
instead of the Force being reduced, the number of Dice in your Spellcasting pool is reduced instead.
Alan is only throwing 1 die of Spellcasting skill, regardless of Force. It still limits how many successes you will see in the end, just in a different way. For Shivak, I still think you want more than 1 point in "spells" but that's up to you, of course
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I could easily say fuck it, one less die in my Influence group spell, for now, is more than worth the 25 karma to initiate and maybe figure a way to buy his Magic Rating up. I have to rethink things. Building Spellcasting up is cheaper than buying up magic rating anyway.
Clarification needed... the discount to initiation costs in the Street Magic book only cover the levels of initiation, right? Not the cost of raising one's magic rating?
Clarification needed... the discount to initiation costs in the Street Magic book only cover the levels of initiation, right? Not the cost of raising one's magic rating?
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whit10 wrote:I could easily say fuck it, one less die in my Influence group spell, for now, is more than worth the 25 karma to initiate and maybe figure a way to buy his Magic Rating up. I have to rethink things. Building Spellcasting up is cheaper than buying up magic rating anyway.
I think we were figuring Initiation wrong earlier too
it is only 10 + (grade x3) per level
so 13 = grade 1
+ 16 (29) = grade 2
+ 19 (48) = grade 3
but then see Alan's 40% discount, so grade 3 is really only 29k
it doesn't raise your magic attribute (that is still really expensive to go from 6 to 7) but you get the other benefits of Initiation (centering, shielding, etc)
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so, I've been tinkering with a new build... buying Magic up to a 7 (so far) and re-figuring his Spell point distribution.
4 for magic, 3 for spells? without having to go through all other changes, what do you think of that? it's still 8 dice (plus a possible power focus) to the pool.
4 for magic, 3 for spells? without having to go through all other changes, what do you think of that? it's still 8 dice (plus a possible power focus) to the pool.
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the other option is to drop Deflection down to level 2 but I'm a bit hesitant to do that
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does Initiating to level 2 (w/ Alan's discounts) only cost 19 Karma?
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whit10 wrote:does Initiating to level 2 (w/ Alan's discounts) only cost 19 Karma?
just do the math (13 x .6) + (16 x .6)
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ah, even rounding up, it's actually 18. word
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whit10 wrote:ah, even rounding up, it's actually 18. word
yeah, you have to add them separately, since you pay for them at different times
13 x .6 = 7.8 or 8
16 x .6 = 9.6 or 10
so yes, 18
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whit10 wrote:Alan's find about Magic Rating also clears up why you would have cyberware and magic... you can still have a decent amount of dice for spell casting.
right, you can do the same thing in 2 ways
cyberware (lowers essence, lowers magic rating) + Spells = reflexes + spells
adept + spells = reflexes + spells
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check the new version of this guy on my character page... it's just an idea about using magic differently but I'm incorporating many of the things that are in the street magic book. (I vote for all books, might as well) I think we should get more karma to start with as well and I will try to make a reasoned argument to support my suggestion.
Since d20 and SR use very, VERY, different systems, it's hard to apply a rubric for comparison but I think that I have one. I would reason that, roughly, 20 karma represents a 'level' in advancement. To compare, each level in most d20 systems gives at least SOME kind of power advancement or new power every level. In SR, I think it would stand to reason that, during down time like it talks about in the book, you actually raise your stats, skills, etc. 20 karma during each downtime would at least represent raising an attribute to a 5, a skill group to a 4, an individual skill to it's max, more magic, foci, etc. etc. The point is, that average number seems to be about right for what we're dealing with here... to me, that translates to 180 karma (9th level x. 20) to start with. I think this gives anyone who is not using cyberware a chance at somewhat more level footing, since ranged weapons are more lethal, all things considered.
I will of course bow to the GMs wishes
End of plea and/or rant.
Since d20 and SR use very, VERY, different systems, it's hard to apply a rubric for comparison but I think that I have one. I would reason that, roughly, 20 karma represents a 'level' in advancement. To compare, each level in most d20 systems gives at least SOME kind of power advancement or new power every level. In SR, I think it would stand to reason that, during down time like it talks about in the book, you actually raise your stats, skills, etc. 20 karma during each downtime would at least represent raising an attribute to a 5, a skill group to a 4, an individual skill to it's max, more magic, foci, etc. etc. The point is, that average number seems to be about right for what we're dealing with here... to me, that translates to 180 karma (9th level x. 20) to start with. I think this gives anyone who is not using cyberware a chance at somewhat more level footing, since ranged weapons are more lethal, all things considered.
I will of course bow to the GMs wishes
End of plea and/or rant.
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from 4e book
As a general rule of thumb, characters should be earning an average
of 4–5 Karma per adventure, and no more than 10 Karma.
I still think 100-125 is being generous for 9th - 10th level. I am even assuming that 1 adventure might be less than 1 level.
I understand that being a mage is karma-intensive.... that is why they give all the discount % bonuses in the later books
As a general rule of thumb, characters should be earning an average
of 4–5 Karma per adventure, and no more than 10 Karma.
I still think 100-125 is being generous for 9th - 10th level. I am even assuming that 1 adventure might be less than 1 level.
I understand that being a mage is karma-intensive.... that is why they give all the discount % bonuses in the later books
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hey, at this point, I'll take the extra 5 karma if you're offering it... I could get him to an 8 Magic Rating (still nothing for skills, bonus spells, ect.)...
or am I making way too much out of just have my magic rating split 4/3 adept vs. spell pool? That would free up a ton of karma...
or am I making way too much out of just have my magic rating split 4/3 adept vs. spell pool? That would free up a ton of karma...
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rules question... Is Force only based on the fact that you can cast and that you have a magic rating (up to whatever)? If so, does that mean that, as a Mystic Adept, you can spend up to 6 or how whatever points, in Adept abilities and you still have a force of 6 (or double for physical damage drain)?
Chris- Posts : 9503
Join date : 2011-10-26
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Hit points: (35/35)
Action Points: (0/0)
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whit10 wrote:rules question... Is Force only based on the fact that you can cast and that you have a magic rating (up to whatever)? If so, does that mean that, as a Mystic Adept, you can spend up to 6 or how whatever points, in Adept abilities and you still have a force of 6 (or double for physical damage drain)?
I see where you are going with this.... but no, it doesn't (and shouldn't) work that way.
Every point of Magic invested in mana-based abilities grants the character
one point to use with Magic-based skills.
so if you had adept powers of 6 and mana skills of 0, you would just be an Adept and couldn't cast spells at all.
You have to have at least 1 point in Magic (for spells) to cast. But if you had 1 point in Magic, then YES, you could cast with a Force of up to your full Magic Rating or x2 for overcasting.
whit10- Posts : 6614
Join date : 2012-03-27
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Hit points: (19/19)
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I think I have it now. Thanks... wasn't trying to rules lawyer anything
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