test fights using SR rules

I still can't seem to find how the critical strike works, or rather, how one uses it?

Do you just apply it when you attack? I would certainly like to use it but wasn't sure how to 'activate' it?

whit10 wrote:I still can't seem to find how the critical strike works, or rather, how one uses it?

Do you just apply it when you attack?  I would certainly like to use it but wasn't sure how to 'activate' it?

I don't think there is an activation required, from the text below, it just adds damage to your attacks, much like the d20 lightsaber damage boost

Chris wrote:
Critical Strike
Cost: .25 per level
This power uses magic to increase the Damage Value of your unarmed
attacks, as you strike with more proficiency and power. Each
level of Critical Strike increases the character’s Damage Value in unarmed
combat by +1.

like I said, getting hit SUCKS.  imagine a character with an 8 str and like 4 pts in crit strike and a high melee skill...  damage would be 7 + 4 + net hits.... that is min 11 damage, usually more like 13-15 which is enough to kill in 1 blow before soak

ok, I'll just have to use it next time. I hate retcons

whit10 wrote:ok, I'll just have to use it next time.  I hate retcons

it's just a test fight.... the whole point is to figure out the rules

it's just a matter of adding boxes to the damage he already took, the soak roll has been made. these are kind of like Potence from vampire, they are automatically applied, no roll needed, which makes them REALLY powerful, imo. I don't have a copy of Daxx in front of me or I would just add them

well, he has level 4 critical strike...

whit10 wrote:well, he has level 4 critical strike...

 like that ork I mentioned....

Chris wrote:7 boxes of damage
soak with 4 Body only, since LS penetrates armor
Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :
3 + 2 + 1 + 6
1 hit, so he takes 6 boxes of damage
with a body of 4, he has 10 total boxes of health
so that fills up his top 2 rows and puts him at -2 on future rolls

so that is 11! total boxes of damage
body 4, soaked 1 hit

10 boxes out of 10 total = dead (or KO'd maybe, not sure) sith goon #1

ouch, well that takes care of having to read about AoO and firing into melee rules

ok, the other Sith goon moves 10m (free) so he can get a clear line of sight on Daxx

firing a gun is a simple action, so he can take 2 shots, with a -1 penalty to the 2nd shot at Daxx (this is not using burst or automatic fire rules)

1st shot
4 + 5 + 4 + 1 + 3 + 5 + 6 + 4

3 hits!

2nd shot
Result of the throw of dice "7d6" :

4 + 2 + 3 + 1 + 5 + 4 + 2 = 21

1 hit

how would Daxx like to defend?  remember full defense with Lightsaber Parry uses his complex action from action pass 2  (but he goes again at the top of rd3 anyways)

Daxx needs to make 2 rolls, 1 for each shot, no penalty or degrading dice on defense

Full Defense, I think it's still 8d6 to defend?

1st shot:

Roll(8d6)+0:
3,2,1,1,6,4,5,6

3 successes

2nd shot:

Roll(8d6)+0:
1,5,4,3,3,5,2,5

same thing... 3 (unless, again, I'm missing something, lol)

Daxx deflects both shots

redirect?

if not, top of rd 3 and Daxx is up again

yes... but I can't friggin find what I need to roll for that. lol

And as to your comment about the 33% thing... maybe I am misunderstanding your point but, if you can only hit a target 33% of the time or hit someone square with a melee weapon at that percentage, you should find another job. That's pretty piss-poor accuracy IMO. (but, again, I may me missing your point)

I seem to remember ways to drop target numbers in the original and 2nd editions of this game. Is that not present anymore, or is that just for cyber ware or something? It is a weapon made of pure energy after all... just sayin'

whit10 wrote:yes... but I can't friggin find what I need to roll for that. lol

And as to your comment about the 33% thing... maybe I am misunderstanding your point but, if you can only hit a target 33% of the time or hit someone square with a melee weapon at that percentage, you should find another job.  That's pretty piss-poor accuracy IMO. (but, again, I may me missing your point)

I seem to remember ways to drop target numbers in the original and 2nd editions of this game.  Is that not present anymore, or is that just for cyber ware or something?  It is a weapon made of pure energy after all... just sayin'

redirect = agility + lightsaber parry

you are definitely not grasping the mathematics....  it is only a 33% if you roll 1d6.  Each die rolled is a separate event, so you multiply the probabilities:


think about 2 dice being rolled....  you have 36 unique possible combinations.  look at this chart below and count how many times a 5 or a 6 comes up in ANY combination



a 5 or 6 comes up in 20 possible combinations out of 36

20\36 = ~55%

another way to look at it is to ask "how many times will a 5 or 6 NOT come up on 2 dice?"  

chances of NOT a 5 or 6 on 1 die  = 4\6
chances of NOT a 5 or 6 on 2nd die = 4\6

4\6 x 4\6 = 16\36 times that a 5 or 6 does not show up on 2 dice
subtract 16 from 36 to figure out how many it WILL show up = 20\36 times or ~55%

for 3 dice rolled take 16\36 x 4\6 = 64\216 to not get a 5 or 6
152\216 that a 5 or 6 will show up = ~70%

for 4 dice 64\216 x 4\6 = 256\1296 to not get a 5 or 6
1296 - 256 = 1040\1296 = ~80.25%

the % of getting a 5 or 6 keeps going up the more dice you roll  

this is why you can buy hits, just like "taking 10" in d20.  for every 4 dice you have in a skill, you can buy 1 hit in a non-stress related test.

Target Numbers were all over the place in 1E, they got rid of that crap and stabilized the math by making everything a set 5.  cyberware now adds dice to rolls (unless I am missing\mis-reading it)

fine, I suck at math. It's still overly cumbersome...

moving on

10d6 redirect

Roll(10d6)+0:
6,2,4,4,5,4,4,3,2,6

...and my math is not that off at all... still getting 3 out of 10 on average.

whit10 wrote:fine, I suck at math.  It's still overly cumbersome...

moving on

10d6 redirect

Roll(10d6)+0:
6,2,4,4,5,4,4,3,2,6

...and my math is not that off at all... still getting 3 out of 10 on average.

/beats head into desk/

but it only takes 1 hit to be a success.


3 hits to redirect vs his ranged defense, he doesn't want to lose his only action, so he will just defend using Reaction of 4

Result of the throw of dice "4d6" :

3 + 6 + 3 + 1

1 hit, so you end up with 2 net hits, enough to hit + 1 box of damage

I think I said their rifles did 6p + 1 = 7 boxes of damage

he gets Body 4 + his hvy armor 8 to soak

Result of the throw of dice "12d6" :

4 + 3 + 1 + 5 + 1 + 3 + 4 + 6 + 6 + 3 + 5 + 2

4 hits on soak, so he takes 3 boxes of damage and is now -1

that was the redirect from Sith's shot, which used Daxx's 2nd action of rd2

rd3

Daxx
goon
Daxx

'beat's head against desk'??

Now you know how I feel reading through this book... I won't tell you how many times I've thought to myself "why did they do this?"

anyway... move over to the other member of Daft Punk and chop him down.

Roll(10d6)+0:
6,2,1,4,6,2,3,6,6,3

OMG!!! more than 3 successes! I should go buy a lottery ticket!

whit10 wrote:'beat's head against desk'??

Now you know how I feel reading through this book... I won't tell you how many times I've thought to myself "why did they do this?"

anyway...  move over to the other member of Daft Punk and chop him down.

Roll(10d6)+0:
6,2,1,4,6,2,3,6,6,3

OMG!!! more than 3 successes!  I should go buy a lottery ticket!  

shouldn't it be 14d? if so just add 4d to your roll, you might get 5

he gets reaction + dodge = 8d

Result of the throw of dice "8d6" :

3 + 3 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 1

and he just botched..... no hits and 1/2 dice are 1s

it doesn't matter, he is toast

I think we can wrap up this test fight

hah! Daxx is triumphant over Daft Punk! Take that you bearded disco-loving weirdos!

That was actually helpful. but, it's still back to the drawing board... move object and other things have to be figured out.

Which leads me to my next question.... so, for the sake of argument, I put one Magic Point into Sorcery and leave the rest for Adept powers (I guess that's how it works) what does he get as far as "spells"?

you have to buy spells with BPs or karma, but I don't remember the costs

it means that you can cast any spell with a force of 1 = so magic + sorcery of 1 dice
with regular stun drain

or go up to x2 force and suffer physical damage drain

the force of the spell also limits the total # of hits that are possible. I don't think you will be happy with 1 pt in spellcasting, unless you look at spells and only need 1 hit on them. Like I said initially, i think Jedi\Sith are going to be Mystic Adepts with a roughly equal split in magic\adept abilities

if you keep Initiation, which is good, I think something between 3\5 - 4\4 - 5\3 is going to let you cast effectively as a minor caster (not a full mage of course) and have enough points to buy some good adept abilities.

notice - many spells duplicate adept powers, so if you have the spell, you don't need to spend the adept points on it - like enhance attributes, enhanced senses, enhanced reflexes. the trade off is the time to cast vs having it be 'always on'

ok then. So a jedi akin to the SW game is impossible. Good to know.

I probably won't even bother then... they kinda suck. Most of the adept powers really aren't worth cost and spells with a force of one are seemingly pointless (unless I'm missing something). I'll have to look everything over again (sigh)

whit10 wrote:ok then.  So a jedi akin to the SW game is impossible.  Good to know.

I probably won't even bother then... they kinda suck.  Most of the adept powers really aren't worth cost and spells with a force of one are seemingly pointless (unless I'm missing something).  I'll have to look everything over again (sigh)

Sounds good, because I am tired of having the same conversation over and over.

I think a fine Jedi\Sith can easily be made

3 adept powers = reflexes 1 (1.5), missle parry 4 (1), crit strike 2 (.5)
5 pts for casting, so rolling 8 + 5 = 13d with max 5 hits, plenty for spells like

Punch = force strike
Fling = force push
influence = affect mind
levitate = move object
healing - heal self
inc attributes
detect magic - kind of See Force
analyze truth
detect life

that would be more like a counselor, just go 4\4 or 5\3 for more adept powers and you get a guardian

but do what you want....

isn't it a complex action to use spells? (jedi powers) Also, are you allowing specializations? (since they aren't allowed, for dumb reason, at the time of character creation)

...and we will have to agree to disagree with your statement about their powers

whit10 wrote:isn't it a complex action to use spells? (jedi powers)  Also, are you allowing specializations? (since they aren't allowed, for dumb reason, at the time of character creation)
...and we will have to agree to disagree with your statement about their powers

casting spells is a complex action, yes
see page 179 for a complete list of magic actions. (centering is free, for example)


Specializations are completely legal at creation, they cost 2 BP each = super cheap!

from pg 84

Sp ecializations
Skills are general—your character can shoot any pistol with the Pistols
skill, or drive any car with the Pilot Ground Craft skill. If you want
your character to have a signature ability, something he is better at than
everyone else, you can give him a specialization.
For example, a character with the Pistols skill can choose to specialize
in Revolvers, which means he’s a crack shot at using revolvers,
but not quite as good while firing semi-automatics. If your character
has a specialization, he adds 2 extra dice to the skill test whenever the
specialization applies (see Specializations, p. 121).
Specializations only cost 2 BP. You can only acquire specializations
to skills you currently possess. Characters may only have one
specialization per skill. Characters may not purchase specializations
for skill groups.


Since I had this same type of conversation with Alan on the other thread..... what book are you reading? (honestly, not a snide question). Alan had 4e, but not the 20th anniversary 4e.

20th anniversary... maybe I just missed it.  Thanks for the clarification

can specialization be counted with lightsabers? Just need the clarification

I think I'm going to build some kind of tank in all honesty that also might have adept powers (since we're not doing much with cyberware?)... I don't know, I'll have to look things over later. I guess it depends on armor or what he could buy with spells (which doesn't look that promising)

whit10 wrote:20th anniversary... maybe I just missed it.  Thanks for the clarification

can specialization be counted with lightsabers?  Just need the clarification

I think I'm going to build some kind of tank in all honesty that also might have adept powers (since we're not doing much with cyberware?)... I don't know, I'll have to look things over later.  I guess it depends on armor or what he could buy with spells (which doesn't look that promising)

I linked the correct book in the other thread, direct download.

cyberware depends a lot on which timeline you all chose. the later time would definitely have cyberware

there is also a magic book that adds like 18 traditions and 43 adept powers

so there's another book now? (sigh)

I've always thought that, if a game needs 5 revisions, there just might be a problem somewhere. But what do I know

I'm sure I should know this but what the hell is a tradition? It that the whole "sorcerer, conjurer, adept" thing?

More adept powers could be interesting

What thread is it in?  I can't seem to find this link you speak of

whit10 wrote:so there's another book now?  (sigh)
I've always thought that, if a game needs 5 revisions, there just might be a problem somewhere.  But what do I know
I'm sure I should know this but what the hell is a tradition?  It that the whole "sorcerer, conjurer, adept" thing?
More adept powers could be interesting

D&D red box
AD&D
2e
3.x
4e
Pathfinder
new D&D

yup, problem with the system

just like PF and all other games, there are extra books for more cyberware, more magic, more gun. nothing new here

Chris wrote:http://littlezeus.free.fr/jdr/Shadowrun%20JdR%20%5BFR-ENG%5D/Shadowrun%204th%20Edition%20+%20Suppl%C3%A9ments/%5BShadowrun%5D%5BJDR-ENG%5D%20Shadowrun%2020th%20Anniversary%20Corebook.pdf

try here, I found it on a torrent-like site, but I don't remember where at the moment

(snort) I don't really count the first 2 versions of D&D anymore... nice idea, terrible execution. PF finally got it right. New books to expand the current system are one thing... WoC is out of their minds trying to release a damned 5th edition given how badly 4th edition bombed.

but I suppose you have a point. However, I'd like to speak to whomever made up the last three SR books and tell 'em to make up their fucking minds

thanks for the link... I'll have to wait till I'm at home, no way in hell I'm downloading a torrent at work.

right on, we should move any further rules questions to the other thread to keep them together

word