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    Downtime, money, respec discussion thread

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    Chirs2

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    Downtime, money, respec discussion thread

    Post  Chirs2 on Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:54 pm

    We can start a new thread once we discuss and decide.

    Part of me really like the idea of total respec, including money during every downtime.  Let's face it, if you can re-roll anytime you want, you are essentially doing the same thing as the total respec.  However, the GM in me is concerned this will lead to our favorite game show = MONTY HAUL!

    The most obvious problem is that there is no MONEY SINK, which is an inherent and built-in part of every RPG and MMO.  There is a reason when you sell your +2 sword, to buy the shiny new +3 one, you only get 1/2 its value.  It's a money sink, meant to keep the loot level reasonable.

    Another major issue is CONSUMABLES.  Essentially with total $$ respec, every wand gets fully recharged and every scroll gets replaced after each fight.  Consumables are meant to be another way of taking $$ out of a player's pocket.  Again, this leads to a power-item creep for already powerful characters.  

    I suggest that we keep as close to the PF rules as we can.  Selling\exchanging any magic item should net only 1/2 the value of item.  Scrolls and wands are used up permanently.  There is no full $$ respec.  

    This would also solve the Crafting problem - Crafted items only cost 1/2 price but still sell at the same $ amount, essentially they get a full trade-in value, because you only paid 1/2 to begin with, which gives the Feats some real value.

    There are very specific rules in the PF, which I linked for Alan, about respec for Feats, Spells, Abilities, etc.  They all cost gold - this is an intended money sink.  I suggest we use it.  Yes, you can change, but it does cost a bit of gold.  

    I think new characters should start at the same XP level, but only get the base gold for that level, just as any new character would.  So if Josh rolls with a new Dwarven Barbarian, he starts at +41,000 XP, but only the base $315,000 not the $369,000 we have from adventuring.  Once we all get to 17th, then any reroll would start with the base for 17 which is $410,000.

    In this way, you really have to make choices that matter. Yes you can sell or re-roll but it puts you back a bit. Obviously the best time to re-roll is when the party advances to a new level.

    I would also be fine with saying that these rules (or whatever we decide upon) go into effect after the NEXT fight. So we could all have 1 Mulligan now, but after this free respec, selling is 1/2 price and respecs cost $$.
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    navyik

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    Re: Downtime, money, respec discussion thread

    Post  navyik on Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:35 am

    I'm easy. Probably easier for GM to track challenge rating effectively if there is some incentive to respec conservatively. I also agree with keeping the craft feats relevant.
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    Arcturus2

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    Re: Downtime, money, respec discussion thread

    Post  Arcturus2 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:59 am

    I just assumed that any gear sold/traded would be at the standard 1/2 value.. and that our casters (or someone else in Valum's fortress of solitude) could be persuaded to craft for the standard costs listed. The Tables in the core books are pretty straightforward re:material costs/cost per caster level.

    Am I misunderstanding what the respec discussion from the other thread was about?

    Going back to that- Garth would be pretty cool with bound gear or a permanent spell effect for dark vision/true seeing.

    And as high level as we are, a weapon with a +5 magic bonus and 2 effects is pretty much maxed out, so I can't see any need to trade/sell an item like that.. Since that's the case, binding it to keep with the 'money sink' sounds good to this player.

    Garth doesn't give a rat's ass about money, he's just looking for the best possible weapons, whether he buys it, finds it, whatever. He'd be the type to drop his sword where he stood if he found something clearly better/tougher/meaner to pick up and take.

    My regret from Ill humor is only that we didn't take more time to properly roll the CGs. We could have missed a ring, or amulet, an enchanted something that woulda been cool.

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    navyik

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    Re: Downtime, money, respec discussion thread

    Post  navyik on Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:11 pm

    Who wants to add spell storing to griz's amulet if mighty fist?
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    whit10

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    Re: Downtime, money, respec discussion thread

    Post  whit10 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:17 pm

    Not sure that you can do that man.

    Or, if it can, the CL for it might be too high for our current casters. That's a potent magic item that you're talking about
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    navyik

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    Re: Downtime, money, respec discussion thread

    Post  navyik on Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:52 pm

    Its a +1 weapon enhancement...
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    Chirs2

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    Re: Downtime, money, respec discussion thread

    Post  Chirs2 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:06 pm

    navyik wrote:Its a +1 weapon enhancement...

    yup, that's totally doable, as long as your Amulet of Mighty Fists is only +4, then it can have Spell Storing (+1) added to it.  Or if we go with 1 free full respec, then you could just build it that way from the beginning.

    Amulet of Mighty Fists

    Aura faint evocation; CL 5th

    Slot neck; Price 4,000 gp (+1), 16,000 gp (+2), 36,000 gp (+3), 64,000 (+4), 100,000 gp (+5); Weight —

    Description

    This amulet grants an enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 on attack and damage rolls with unarmed attacks and natural weapons.

    Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks. See Table: Melee Weapon Special Abilities for a list of abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses. An amulet of mighty fists cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +5. An amulet of mighty fists does not need to have a +1 enhancement bonus to grant a melee weapon special ability.

    Construction

    Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, greater magic fang, creator's caster level must be at least three times the amulet's bonus, plus any requirements of the melee weapon special abilities; Cost 2,000 gp (+1), 8,000 gp (+2), 18,000 gp (+3), 32,000 (+4), 50,000 (+5)


    Rasso can craft it, but he would also need a scroll of Grt magic Fang
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    navyik

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    Re: Downtime, money, respec discussion thread

    Post  navyik on Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:09 pm

    It is only holy (+2) right now.
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    whit10

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    Re: Downtime, money, respec discussion thread

    Post  whit10 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:34 pm

    ah, hadn't thought of that. Nice.
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    Chirs2

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    Re: Downtime, money, respec discussion thread

    Post  Chirs2 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:27 pm

    navyik wrote:It is only holy (+2) right now.

    that isn't legal. It has to be at least +1 to hit\damage and then Holy (+2) = +3
    this is the same for any weapon or armor

    So it could be +1 to hit\damage, Holy and Spell Storing = +4
    value $64,000
    crafted $32,000

    but yeah, Rasso could do that for ya
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    navyik

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    Re: Downtime, money, respec discussion thread

    Post  navyik on Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:29 pm

    Chirs2 wrote:
    navyik wrote:It is only holy (+2) right now.

    that isn't legal.  It has to be at least +1 to hit\damage and then Holy (+2) = +3
    this is the same for any weapon or armor

    So it could be +1 to hit\damage, Holy and Spell Storing = +4
    value $64,000
    crafted $32,000

    but yeah, Rasso could do that for ya

    Read it again more carefully... It does NOT need a +1 first.
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    Chirs2

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    Re: Downtime, money, respec discussion thread

    Post  Chirs2 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:39 pm

    navyik wrote:
    Read it again more carefully... It does NOT need a +1 first.

    damn 0-2 today on reading comprehension  Sad 

    so you just want it at +3 total?
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    navyik

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    Re: Downtime, money, respec discussion thread

    Post  navyik on Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:07 am

    Yeah, maybe add more to it later.
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    navyik

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    Re: Downtime, money, respec discussion thread

    Post  navyik on Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:09 am

    Chirs2 wrote:
    navyik wrote:
    Read it again more carefully... It does NOT need a +1 first.

    damn 0-2 today on reading comprehension  Sad 

    so you just want it at +3 total?

    And you can throw thermal detonators! bom 
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    Chirs2

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    Re: Downtime, money, respec discussion thread

    Post  Chirs2 on Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:15 am

    navyik wrote:
    Chirs2 wrote:
    navyik wrote:
    Read it again more carefully... It does NOT need a +1 first.

    damn 0-2 today on reading comprehension  Sad 

    so you just want it at +3 total?

    And you can throw thermal detonators! bom 

    but only if you throw them at Josh, otherwise they blow up in your hand to the unstable liquid core  Twisted Evil 

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