ALL DISCUSSION and QUESTIONS

Please keep all discussion in this thread.

Hex map and 5e/house rules look fine. Will post a character soon...

Excellent. Im going to invite the others tomorrow.

I am not sure if Jason is following the pirate OOG thread, but it might be nice to invite him since he doesn't have a game currently

Chris wrote:I am not sure if Jason is following the pirate OOG thread, but it might be nice to invite him since he doesn't have a game currently

Good catch - Ill make sure he hears!

I am still not sure I follow everything, but I am game to help you playtest this and see where it goes

I clicked on the link in the other thread but got a 404 error.

can you check the link and repost it?

Ugg, sorry, Ive tried to fix it a few times and no joy, not sure why it keeps deactivating. 

Googling "Trove Ultramodern 5" brought me the direct pdf link as first return. I'll try to address the link situation. 

Glad to have you involved, Chris. Think the simultaneous declare will make sense as we get into the funnel. We 'll leave off the major time hacks at first if needed as we establish the flow of it. As for the Endurance rules, we'll see how those play out. In both we can make refinements based on what we see, if it proves to have some value



Once I have tokens of everyone (if we have no further players, id ask you and Rob to each run 2) Ill place them in a start on the map, throw some narration, and we'll launch into rounds. If/when you have specific questions, fire away.

On the Trove, there's a handful of files for Ultramodern 5. Pregens are in the back of version 1.2.


Looks like the newest/color version is Redux? Maybe it has errata incorporated? Nonetheless, I pulled William out of 1.2.

ok, I found v1.2 in color now

I will take Susan as a first choice and then Frank if we play 2

Excellent, sounds good. Want to get a feel for U5, then cherry pick some tech out of 5E based "Carbon 2185" and "Esper Genesis"  for a near-future cyber-tecno action feel. The other candidate for this was PAIZO based - there is a a great Starfinder based Cyberpunk set that really rounds it out; of course, the PAIZO approach gets a lot more number heavy. Feel like the more streamlined 5e isa good option.

Ooo ooo ooooooo!

Okay I like Frank but I would play Elliot too if someone else is really set on Frank.

navyik wrote:Okay I like Frank but I would play Elliot too if someone else is really set on Frank.

Sounds good. Can you copy/paste from the pdf or do you need someone to add that to the character list?

I went with Elliot. “I an good honest Russian citizen. Not like American citizen who cheat in elections or storm government buildings...”

navyik wrote:I went with Elliot. “I an good honest Russian citizen. Not like American citizen who cheat in elections or storm government buildings...”

ha! awesome, glad you are aboard



Any questions, having looked over anything - fire away!

Elliot has good Russian “Military combat armor” on his character sheet. Me thinks your book is wrong where it says “Tactical combat armor.” Is same thing, no? But Russian armor is better...

Also Elliot is missing Archetype, no? He should have 5 artillery talents and one archetype. Is typical American cheating like election, no?

navyik wrote:Elliot has good Russian “Military combat armor” on his character sheet. Me thinks your book is wrong where it says “Tactical combat armor.” Is same thing, no? But Russian armor is better...

Also Elliot is missing Archetype, no?  He should have 5 artillery talents and one archetype. Is typical American cheating like election, no?

Elliot figure it out. I have two ranks in Imposing Frame. Is Russian Olympic training. I not make mistake. Was book being wrong again. Elliot fix on character sheet.

Lol, awesome Alan! sorry I didnt catch your question injh time to help. 


SO - My original Intent was for this to be seperate from future games (in story/character) and just test mechanics, but I've got a way to make this prelude - so If you want to put some effort into Roleplaying, have at it. This doesn't mean you are tied to the character in the future; I'd like you you all to make your own characters if you so choose - or you'd have the option to level up your pregen. I think we'll probably start somewhere around level 14 for the main characters. 

In short - this "test" scenario is taking place using a VR training system. So whatever Character you are going to play, is logging into a system for this scenario and playing via an in game avatar. For the purposes of this test, you are roleplaying Spec-Ops types utilizing a VR training system. Kinda meta. it doesn't have to make too much sense -but this allows you to keep the persona you develop in play during the test for whatever character you choose to actually play. 

 

Awesome. I will definitely make a new character. In order to narrow the scope my research, can you give us a clue as to any limitations, like tech level or money? Also, Should we use the 14th level pre-gens as a guide on equipment? Since Elliot is ready, it will give me something to chew on.

I'm still hashing out some final details, but go ahead and equip the 14th level characters with ANY TL2 equipment/weapons/armor. You'll get a chance to adjust, but see what you can build! 

Additionally, You'll most often get a chance to change loadouts based on the mission! As the test gets on its feet, Ill start filling in more campaign/character gen info. This will be an UN type international multi agency thing, think in terms of "Areas of expertise" for team members:

Engineer/Demo (Rob has expressed interest)
Comms/Tech
Marksmanship/Sniper
Heavy Weapons
Team Leader (Someone is gonna be the team leader, built for it or not, somebody is in charge. This doesn't mean micromanagement, or that they don't take input from the team. Additionally, the team leader could be an NPC with shared party control) 
Intel/Languages
Working dog (or robot!) 
"Agent" types would also be totally valid, intel or law enforcement, etc 
Medic 

If you aren't seeing a way to build what you are envisioning, let me know, and we'll figure something out. We've got a few other 5e rulesets we can cherry pick, or re-skin 5e Dnd things that function well, etc. 


PRO TIP: Take a good look at cover and concealment rules, thats gonna be a big deal.

Can you point me to a page with the combat\cover\concealment rules?  or do you just mean the 5e ones from D&D?

I don't see Medic on that list, but I would be willing to try a Leader-Medic combo, if no one else wants either job.

Also, I am digging the retro art, it reminds me of old Paranoia\Wasteland\Shadowrun books from the 80s-early 90s

Standard 5e Cover/concealment rules. Omission of Medic from that list was an oversight, good catch! 

The art is cool, for sure. Its a pretty solid little ruleset.

I have a gunslinger build developing that has thieves tools, stealth, and computer skills. He isn’t necessarily crunched as a hacker but at least he can have the proficiencies.

navyik wrote:I have a gunslinger build developing that has thieves tools, stealth, and computer skills. He isn’t necessarily crunched as a hacker but at least he can have  the proficiencies.

Cross training in roles/functions/skill sets is common on Spec Ops teams, so that makes a lot of sense.

GAME IS LIVE, SEE GAMEPLAY THREAD AND MAKE YOUR DECLARATIONS

sorry, I guess I should have asked here....


which of the targets can we actually see or have LOS on?
we probably need to know this, so maybe some kind of indicator on the map, like a yellow highlight around the enemy token if we have LOS or maybe grey out targets that we know are there but that we don't have actual LOS on?

Chris wrote:sorry, I guess I should have asked here....


which of the targets can we actually see or have LOS on?  
we probably need to know this, so maybe some kind of indicator on the map, like a yellow highlight around the enemy token if we have LOS or maybe grey out targets that we know are there but that we don't have actual LOS on?  

Excellent catch, we have our first bug!  I'll have a fix for that in place tomorrow morning. Let me chew on how best to portray that overnight - LOS indicator on each enemy token, for each of you. Think Ive got an idea based on your suggestion but I need to fiddle with it.

Questions:

1. How do damage boosts that raise the damage dice affect auto fire and area effect fire that calls for targets to make saves?

2. Do advantage and disadvantage for the shooter affect area effect fire saves of targets?

3. I know I always overdo it, but can we multi class within Ultra Modern? How about with D&D classes?

4. Also, exo armor is in the table that will totally change my approach...

5. Can we establish personal depositories for character development? Typically this helps establish dibs on a certain plan.

navyik wrote:Questions:

1. How do damage boosts that raise the damage dice affect  auto fire and area effect fire that calls for targets to make saves?

2. Do advantage and disadvantage for the shooter affect area effect fire saves of targets?

3. I know I always overdo it, but can we multi class within Ultra Modern?  How about with D&D classes?

4. Also, exo armor is in the table that will totally change my approach...

5. Can we establish personal depositories for character development?  Typically this helps establish dibs on a certain plan.

1. Unless I'm missing something, it only affects the damage you roll. Please expand or copy/paste the language you are unsure of if that doesn't address the question
2. Not unless stated by an ability or some such "exception". Advantage or Disadvantage effects the attack roll for the shooter during the attack.
3. You can multiclass within U5 for now. I may be adding some options from Carbon2185 (a cyberpunk 5e rule set). If you have an idea that you think would need a DnD class, lets discuss.  
4. TL 2 was the stated Tech level limit, so no exo-armor. 
5. Please do!

I love the Overwatch rules! and I also love that they called it Overwatch from the old Space Marines\Genestealers games.

@ Alan - I see where you were going regarding damage inflicting saves (overwatch) and powerup. It says "next attack" so Id say the up-bumped dmg code would apply to ANY attack, including Overwatch, assuming it is the next attack roll you make. This may go without saying, but if said attack misses, the power-up is wasted, as it doesnt say "next atk that hits". 

So yes, you can power up+overwatch, the damage increase applies to the next attack whether that occurs as an overwatch effect or a standard atk.

"Overwatch" is an actual military term, WH40K did a good job of integrating real jargon! Overwatch was a core concept for us Cav Scouts - in vehicle/foot movement, in building/maintaining obstacles & screen lines (an obstacle without overwatch will be defeated in time) , and careful consideration when establishing an LP/OP (listening/observation post). 


From the Wiki -
Overwatch is a force protection tactic in modern warfare where one small military unit, vehicle or aircraft supports another friendly unit while the latter is executing fire and movement tactics. The term was coined in U.S. military doctrine in the 1950s.^[1]
An overwatching unit typically takes a vantage position (usually a high ground or tall structure with good defilade) where it can observe the terrain far ahead, especially likely enemy positions and movements. This allows it to act as a warning system against hostile aggressions and provide effective covering fire for advancing friendly units.

Bounding overwatch is a common move under heavy fire, in more conventional  and extreme situations, bounding by buddy on a 1:1 basis isn't uncommon.

Fire teams and squads will often bound as teams rather than as individuals - Fire teams or squad covering fire team or squad as they leapfrog. This is slow and exhausting work, rarely done outside of contact. Prior to contact (before any shooting starts) and within their own fireteam/squad when they bound as a group, you'll see teams moving as one, in what is most likely a small wedge or a "stack" if they are in a line, trading hard cover for speed and relying on a fan of weapon orientation to create an instant response to any potential attack angle. 

Happy to dig up some more formal examples, but believe it or not, "Seal Team" on CBS is probably among the best military shows ever, and displays a lot the current doctrine for tactical movement, or "weapon flow" as its called. They've got a couple of former SEALs on the cast and acting as tech advisors, so its one of the best places to see no shit room clearing and small team tactics. The show actually does a great job of portraying military life and professional aspects, and the characters are human and well portrayed. Its both a good show and a highly accurate look at Spec Ops tactics. 

Here is a couple clips that give several cool examples - 


 

I think I track the idea of colored stars for us PCs

What I still don't understand (maybe I am just not seeing it) is how do I know whether Susan has a clear\partial\obstructed\none LOS on an enemy unit?



is this what you want in a stat block?

Chris wrote:
SUSAN
Class & Level Medic 4
(base) Armor Class 15
Speed 30 feet.
Passive Wisdom (Perception) 15

Hit Point Maximum 18
Endurance: ?
Initiative: 9
(effective) eAC: 22
Sv roll: 12 +5 Dx

plus wpn damage, if she fires or uses OW etc

Chris wrote:I think I track the idea of colored stars for us PCs

What I still don't understand (maybe I am just not seeing it) is how do I know whether Susan has a clear\partial\obstructed\none LOS on an enemy unit?



is this what you want in a stat block?

Chris wrote:
SUSAN
Class & Level Medic 4
(base) Armor Class  15
Speed 30 feet.
Passive Wisdom (Perception) 15

Hit Point Maximum 18
Endurance:  ?
Initiative:  9
(effective) eAC:  22  
Sv roll:  12 +5 Dx

plus wpn damage, if she fires or uses OW etc

Locate your icon on the chart nested into the upper right of the map. Cross=reference your Icon with the target listed, and that tells you how obstructed your LOS is for that target. 

Stat block looks good; don't need your lvl/class or ability mod for the save - Ill cross reference which ability mod your save requires (though DX will be the most common)

Endurance = As presented in the SCENARIO INFORMATION & RULES thread. Adding your ability modifiers together, your Endurance is 12 right now. 
 
PLOT ARMOR (Hit Points) and ENDURANCE (Exhaustion Mechanic):


Action/Military/Espionage type action with firearms doesn't make a lot of sense in 5e DnD rules. It gets silly to think about characters and villains taking a half dozen hits and still being on their feet because the HP toal hasn't been reached. It just doesn't portray the lethality, or look very cinematic. One interesting way to approach this is to consider HP to be "Plot armor". A "hit" doesn't necessarily mean someone is bleeding, but it represents their luck/cover/endurance dwindling as the fight unfolds. Hitting "0" HP then forces death saves as usual - THATS the one that got you. I also want to portray a more lethal aspect of firearms, so I've homebrewed this ENDURANCE system that incorporates levels of exhaustion into the mix. A quick refresher on the effects of exhaustion:


Levels
1; Disadvantage on Ability Checks
2; Speed Halved
3; Disadvantage on Attack Rolls and Saving Throws
4; HP Maximum is Halved
5; Speed = 0
6; Death (saves as per 0 HP)






ENDURANCE Score: Add all ability modifiers together = ENDURANCE. Spend 1 point to negate 1 level of exhaustion at time of damage. Pool refreshes after a long rest. Drop max END by 1 point to refresh with a short rest. Max is restored to full after long rest. Characters gain +1 Endurance every even level as they advance. 
MODERN LETHALITY: Any attack that deals more HP dmg than the target’s current ENDURANCE score also deals 1 level of exhaustion.
HEAVY METAL: Any “heavy” weapon attack that deals more HP dmg than the target’s current ENDURANCE score also deals 1d2 levels of exhaustion. Any “super-heavy” weapon attack that deals more HP dmg than the target’s current ENDURANCE score also deals 1d3 levels of exhaustion.
OVERPRESSURE: Any explosive attack (grenade, artillery, demolitions, etc.) that deals more HP dmg than the target’s current ENDURANCE score also deals 1d4 levels of exhaustion, and forces CON save vs DC 10 or be STUNNED for 1d4 rounds.
TRAUMATIC CRITICAL: Any critical hit also deals 1d6 exhaustion levels. 
COMBAT ACTION - AIM: Expend a full round action and make a concentration check to increase exhaustion levels delivered by an attack. 1 full round of Aiming inflicts two exhaustion levels on the next attack. Contiguous rounds stack, up to 3 rounds/6 levels. On the 4th round, an attack that hits will inflict 6 levels of exhaustion and force an immediate death save. AIM can be used with Melee, Ranged, and Thrown weapons.

Chris wrote:
SUSAN
(base) Armor Class  15
Speed 30 feet.
Passive Wisdom (Perception) 15

Hit Point Maximum 18
Endurance:  12
Initiative:  9
(effective) eAC:  22  
Sv roll:  12 +5 Dx

I see it now!   that part was cut off in my browser, like the side of the map is sometimes in combat, my bad.  that looks great

the +5Dx was from cover, that was the only reason I added it, like the eAC



next question is with this 2nd slide

https://servimg.com/view/16858646/413

I am confused - why do we have disadvantage, half HP, half speed, etc on everything?

Prone

   A prone creature’s only Movement option is to crawl, unless it stands up and thereby ends the condition.
   The creature has disadvantage on Attack Rolls.
   An Attack roll against the creature has advantage if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature. Otherwise, the Attack roll has disadvantage.



Should we just add +5 AC for being prone for ranged attacks?  like Adv\Dis on Passive Perception or do you want to roll the Disadvantage on your attacks?

does Prone really give the attacker disadvantage with gun?  that seems logical for melee weapons or even a bow, but not for a gun or crossbow


please let me know if my declared actions look ok!

Chris wrote:

Chris wrote:
SUSAN
(base) Armor Class  15
Speed 30 feet.
Passive Wisdom (Perception) 15

Hit Point Maximum 18
Endurance:  12
Initiative:  9
(effective) eAC:  22  
Sv roll:  12 +5 Dx

I see it now!   that part was cut off in my browser, like the side of the map is sometimes in combat, my bad.  that looks great

the +5Dx was from cover, that was the only reason I added it, like the eAC



next question is with this 2nd slide

https://servimg.com/view/16858646/413

I am confused - why do we have disadvantage, half HP, half speed, etc on  everything?

No worries! I threw it up there without the written attention it was due, I should have been more clear. 

The 2nd chart is a tracker, currently empty for all of you, hashing  out levels of exhaustion and their effects. I intend to shade in each level if/as you take it. The notes are there so you can easily see the accumulation/effect of whatever level you are at. Right now, no one has taken any. 

Good copy on the save.

true, Prone gets a bit wonky here. Lets say =

1, Firing firearms from prone does NOT confer disadvantage, melee attacks or other more primitive missile thrower (bows) DO incur disadvantage from prone. 
2, Prone condition automatically confers RED STAR, even in the open. I don't want to stack the +5 on top the cover/concealment bonus, as that sounds like its starting to really stretch bounded accuracy. 

Your declaration looks great, movement and action description clear, but may require an edit based on my reply, And please add an Attack roll for your return fire if it occurs, you've got damage listed. I'm going to work up a cheat sheet for posting with all the homebrew and such on it. I think we can pare this down into very straightforward round submission that can be resolved and displayed with very little need for follow up posts. Ideally, both player and gm could be making one-two posts per turn!

Did I hit everything?

yeah, that all makes sense!

a c\p turn template is a great idea. it could include our stat block and action block

I edited my combat post to strike out the prone effects and added an attack roll

Chris wrote:yeah, that all makes sense!

a c\p turn template is a great idea.  it could include our stat block and action block

I edited my combat post to strike out the prone effects and added an attack roll

Edit and post are solid, thanks.

Ill try to knock out the template by tomorrow

Sorry, but I have to bow out, gentlemen. We have a 7 month old at home that still doesn't sleep through the night. I also don't have luxury of working from home. Not enough time on my hands for what this game requires.

Good luck!

Robyo wrote:Sorry, but I have to bow out, gentlemen. We have a 7 month old at home that still doesn't sleep through the night. I also don't have luxury of working from home. Not enough time on my hands for what this game requires.

Good luck!

That is disappointing, you are welcome back when you can slip 10 minutes in to your day again. Catch you soon, Get some sleep! 

---

Alan and Chris - Do you want to A) run 1 PC each, or B) have someone take over william, and the other choose a 2nd for a full 4 person party?

[quote="MAS"]

Robyo wrote:

@ Chris re: Endurance score. by my count, your total ability modifiers add up to 12 & you have 14 listed, Is there something I need to clear up?

I see 12 in my stat block

Chris wrote:
SUSAN
(base) Armor Class 15
Speed 30 feet.
Passive Wisdom (Perception) 15

Hit Point Maximum 18
Endurance: 12
Initiative: 8
(effective) eAC: 22 (disadvantage, cover, PT)
Sv roll: 20 +5 Dx

am I not looking at the right place?

I am fine running 2 PCs for testing purposes. do you want to add 1 now or just go ahead with the 3 on the map? I don't care either way.

Picard says he saw 14  

Wouldn't be the least symptom of me losing my mind. 

If its easier, we can just roll with the 3 for now.

"i'll take ridiculously narrow inside jokes for $1000, Alex"

Check out the new PROPAGANDA thread for some campaign teasers/flavor!

MAS wrote:"i'll take ridiculously narrow inside jokes for $1000, Alex"

30 years of friendships will do that

MAS wrote:Check out the new PROPAGANDA thread for some campaign teasers/flavor!

Nawiiice!!!

MAS wrote:Check out the new PROPAGANDA thread for some campaign teasers/flavor!

YO JOE!

DATELINE: JAN 20th, 2025

"Building on the success of Cold War era programs like America's "GI JOE" and the USSR's "OKTOBER GUARD", modern JOE Teams (Joint Operations Elite Teams) leverage the world's best special operations capabilities to resolve "Tier X" crises that threaten to destabilize the international community." 

I'd been mulling over exactly what to do with this military campaign idea for a long while, and then while looking for art, the GI JOE stuff came up and hit me as seeming perfect! It spares me from having to write complex future scenarios with real world stuff and has a ton of interesting source material. 

The vision is a cross between GI JOE cartoons, Tom Clancy material, and Military flicks/TV. I've been sketching out, The whole setting is a goldmine and just waiting to be revamped and explored. 
 
Imagine -

CRIMSON GUARD: The jackasses taking over government buildings start to show up in red uniforms and carrying Cobra banners. These are your proud boys and militias taken another step too far. Whos been funding these assholes, anyway? COBRA, that's who! 
DESTRO: He IS international organized crime. That metal face thing that used to make no sense at all? Anti-camera tech, Destro's face has never been recorded.  High level sub-boss
The BARONESS: Remember how popular Harley Quinn got in pop culture. Imagine if she was a real life authoritarian radical, master of social media and messaging? High level sub-boss AND more! There is both THE Baroness, and "The Baroness" - copycats who become radialized & copy her look, narrative, and act as undercover (or not so undercover) agents and organizers sowing chaos. 
MAJOR BLUDD: Private Military Contractors = private Armies = Cobra troopers
COBRA COMMANDER: Who is the evil mastermind and what is his TRUE plan? 

                  COMING SOON TO A THEATRE NEAR YOU

I love it!

picking up your riff.....    The entire Trump presidency was a destabilization OP staged, funded and planned by Cobra.  Cobra interfered in the 2016 election and laid fake breadcrumbs pinning the blame on Russia.  

Zartan was a master of disguise, so he could have even sat in office as Trump.  His only goal was to create chaos and stir the pot.  That's why nothing made sense and his speeches were so weird.  It also explains the obviously terrible fake hair and orange skin.  

I could see Zartan's Renegades (those Aussie blokes) as the MAGA mob.  They were a bunch of rowdies that loved wanton violence and mayhem.  At least as phase 1, then your CG show up in phase 2. MAGA hats are solid red for a reason, to mark friendly operatives in the field.



caveat - if the cobra LA LA LAs show up with mutant bio-tech, I am out


Ok, confession time....  I had a SERIOUS crush on Baroness as a kid.  meeeoooow!