ALL DISCUSSION and QUESTIONS

navyik wrote:Okay, might not play a gunslinger. Going with Techie/ Heavy multi class.  Heavy weapons guy. I won’t try to take Rob’s engineer/demo role, (though I can assist). I just really like the tech points system.

I have too many ideas.

Chris wrote:I love it!

picking up your riff.....    The entire Trump presidency was a destabilization OP staged, funded and planned by Cobra.  Cobra interfered in the 2016 election and laid fake breadcrumbs pinning the blame on Russia.  

Zartan was a master of disguise, so he could have even sat in office as Trump.  His only goal was to create chaos and stir the pot.  That's why nothing made sense and his speeches were so weird.  It also explains the obviously terrible fake hair and orange skin.  

I could see Zartan's Renegades (those Aussie blokes) as the MAGA mob.  They were a bunch of rowdies that loved wanton violence and mayhem.  At least as phase 1, then your CG show up in phase 2.  MAGA hats are solid red for a reason, to mark friendly operatives in the field.  



caveat - if the cobra LA LA LAs show up with mutant bio-tech, I am out


Ok, confession time....  I had a SERIOUS crush on Baroness as a kid.  meeeoooow!

navyik wrote:Okay, might not play a gunslinger. Going with Techie/ Heavy multi class.  Heavy weapons guy. I won’t try to take Rob’s engineer/demo role, (though I can assist). I just really like the tech points system.

I have too many ideas.

navyik wrote:

Matt, I can totally break this system multi classing......... Use best reasonable judgment?

navyik wrote:Definitely making a ninja. Also a sneaky guy with a machine gun.

Matt, I can totally break this system multi classing. Do you want to test that, or limit to say max 3 classes?  5e D&D has a chart for what stacks and what doesn’t when multiclassing. Some get heavy armor and some don’t. Some get an extra skill or two. They usually get tools and weapons. Use best reasonable judgment?

MAS wrote:
Is someone going to make a declaration for William, or are we going to roll with 2 players, or is someone going to add a 4th pregen? 

@ Chris - Ninjas and martial arts for sure! Care to poke around and see if there is anything interesting in 5e or old D20 to flesh out Martial Arts? 

Chris wrote:

MAS wrote:
Is someone going to make a declaration for William, or are we going to roll with 2 players, or is someone going to add a 4th pregen? 

@ Chris - Ninjas and martial arts for sure! Care to poke around and see if there is anything interesting in 5e or old D20 to flesh out Martial Arts? 

I declared for William to get the party started

I think most of 5e Monks will work for this setting.  Open Hand is probably fine as is, same with Shadow.  The more spell-oriented archetypes just need to be re-skinned into something else.  The 5 elements spells could be tech gadgets or ancient alchemy.  for example Burning Hands is a Mag-phosphate powder thrown in a 15ft cone.  Radiant Sun monks could have some kind of laser beam gadget on their wrists.  

I will also look for other 5e martial arts stuff too

navyik wrote:Multiclassing (preliminary impressions)

One primary ability score at least 13

Face weapons, light armor, disguise kit, 1 skill  ground vehicles

Grounder light and medium armor, shields, small arms and heavy weapons, (not super heavy) ground vehicles

Gunslinger weapons, light and medium armor ground vehicles

Heavy  weapons,  light, medium and heavy armor ground vehicles

Infiltrator one skill, weapons, light armor one tool kit, ground vehicles

Marshall one skill, weapons, light armor, medium armor, ground vehicles

Martial Artist light armor and weapons

Medic one skill, light armor, weapons, poison kit, ground vehicles. Gains multi class exploits like paladin spells.

Sniper light armor, weapons, ground vehicles

Techie one skill, one hand small arms, light and medium armor , tinkers tools, ground vehicles.


If I multi class, I think each class has a separate archetype as a class feature. (One can be both an arcane trickster and an eldritch knight).  If I choose the same archetype for more than one class, do they accumulate or do they stack?

The same question applies to ladders. Do I have one comprehensive ladder or a separate ladder for each class?  Ladder includes ability score raises, so it either follows class levels, or ability score raises must be based on character level in this game. I would choose the latter, but 5E precedent seems to support the former, (which I have always thought was a mistake).

So I think one needs a ladder and an archetype for each class. The question is whether they compound or stack.

So for example:

If archetypes and ladders accumulate
Infiltrator 3
Techie 3
Gunslinger 8
Gun dancer 14
Warrior 14

If archetypes and ladders follow class tables:
Infiltrator 3 Country gunman 3 Survivor 3
Techie 3 Field machinist 3 Savant 3
Gunslinger 8 Gun dancer 8 Warrior 8



Separately I see that the ESP Maelstrom is the only ESP without a second auto-heavy die advancement. Based on the ESP description, I think this is an oversight/misprint and should have a d10/d12 alternative.

MAS wrote:
Initiative order for round 2 places OPFOR actions first, and Targets 3 & 4 are both under overwatch from Susan & William, and begin moving. At this time, they can choose to burn their Round 2 reaction to force saves. I can then resolve the entire round, as all reaming actions follow.

OPFOR: 15
Susan: 8
William: 4
Elliot: 4

Chris wrote:Pup has a new bone to chew on, look out!

MAS wrote:
Initiative order for round 2 places OPFOR actions first, and Targets 3 & 4 are both under overwatch from Susan & William, and begin moving. At this time, they can choose to burn their Round 2 reaction to force saves. I can then resolve the entire round, as all reaming actions follow.

OPFOR: 15
Susan: 8
William: 4
Elliot: 4

I don't understand what you want from us here

Chris wrote:I am not throwing a fuss or anything, but Readied Actions don't work very well if the initiative changes every round

Susan Readied an Action on top of Overwatch and she effectively didn't get to anything out of them.

Her initiative was 8 last round
I just rolled a 19 for this round

so it seems like she won't get to use them?

with a standard initiative order, you are guaranteed a full Round to have access to Readied Actions and Reactions.  but she might lose both under the current situation

also - it seems like having to make more rolls in a system designed to streamline play


also, also - I like the compact description of the round's action

navyik wrote:Don Jones was at Wesleyan. Guess we didn’t see him much after you moved down. He was a strict DM.

I think breaking off into groups might be ambitious. DM’s would need tight communication in other to prevent competing table rules from developing. It also presumes we have 9 reliable players. (Not a criticism but we all have inconsistencies). Two groups with permissions for character coverage would be better. I’m down in any case, but don’t want to DM right away. I need to figure out how to make power point work on my phone.

I would argue vehemently against imposing vulnerabilities on characters for international hesitation. Character is not flat footed. Character is carefully assessing the situation in a state of vigilance before acting. Penalties should be limited to available action and movement choices. 5’ of movement and reactions only could work. Start with heavy restrictions and see whether it is marginalized enough or too much?  

DM should declare intentions intelligently but before the players and in secret. There is less potential for a hesitation round that way. We could otherwise experiment with hesitation as a pc only privilege, but I know you guys will hate that. 🤪

Chris wrote:
1.5) what we are doing is fine for an only u5 + VR + SI test

3.5)  that being said, U5 and SW might work better with VI than D&D.  U5 and SW often involve squad vs squad combat with groups of individuals who share similar abilities.  NPCs are just people with class, ladder, etc and are functionally very similar to the PCs.  

Chris wrote:whoa, talk about a Wall of Words spell!  you even spent a Sorc point to Twin it

To be honest, I have no idea what we are even talking about anymore.  As far as I know, this all started as 'help me playtest SR within u5'

I thought you were talking about GIJOE as a future application of what we playtest in your scenarios?  

I have low confidence in SR after 2 combat rounds, each of which have raised issues with it
I feel even less confidence in VI being viable outside of u5, maybe not even there.  again, it has 2 rounds of testing.

I am still willing to playtest SR (and\or VI) with you in u5 or D&D setting.  I am a little frustrated that after 2 rounds of combat, it sounds like you are giving up on that.  

I don't have the time or interest in co-gm duties or running anything right now.  

What I really like about tactical board games, like Warhammer\space marines\etc, is that they are competitive games.  There are no GMs, only players with equal teams actually fighting each other.  There is no need for "stories" as it is a combat game.  If that was fun for you and Rob, great, but I have no interest in that, sorry.

That is different, imo, from RPGs which are cooperative, not competitive, and usually more story-focused, though like ToA showed not necessarily.  


Again, I don't really understand what you are even proposing at the current time.  It sounds sorta like your Champions game, with missions, varying levels, rotating GMs or multiple scenarios running at once and jumping levels, with flexible teams.....  and GIJOE mixed in.  

If you don't want to playtest anything further, that's fine too I guess.  If you have an idea for a game that you want to run, please present it separate from the discussions of SR\VI playtesting here, since it is confusing to me.

navyik wrote:I guess I just thought we were working out kinks and standardizing interpretation of rules. I wasn’t trying to bag on any of it. I was really having fun...

Chris wrote:I am glad to hear it.  Things are especially hard, for everyone, right now.  We have all been living through the isolation caused by a global pandemic, legitimate concern for our own health or the health of loved ones, an actual coup attempt on the US govt, 4 years of unstable craziness in our govt, not to mention whatever personal issues we all deal with everyday.

Be gentle with yourself.  We are all just doing the best we can right now.  That "best" might not be what we expect of ourselves, but it is what we can do for today.  Some days, just pouring cereal in a bowl for my kid feels like a victory.