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    DISCUSSION THREAD

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    Chris

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    DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:00 pm

    please post here and leave the other thread clean for core info
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    Robyo

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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Robyo on Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:43 pm

    Looks pretty badass. Can I play Ghostrider?
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    Arcturus2

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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Arcturus2 on Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:57 pm

    Sounds like a cool concept.
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:14 pm

    whit10 wrote:...just to try to be helpful for a moment.  At 7th level, I don't think any AC becomes huge... just large or medium (which would normally accommodate most riders).  I would think the rules won't interfere with your idea in any way.

    Just thought I would clarify that.

    MAS wrote:
    whit10 wrote: Just thought I would clarify that.

    I thought you quit - are we going to have to change the locks? Wink




    Ok, first thought. Some sort of mushroom dude who rides a.....I dunno.....tumble weed-like mobile plant? Or maybe an semi-intelligent, Ent like tree................

    Not sure about class.


    WAIT!!!

    Dinosaur riding Ent. DONE and DONE.

    lol!

    yes, the plant race can take any plant-like shapes: fungus, shamblers, ents, etc.

    an Ent riding a dino..... that qualifies as "far out!"


    Last edited by Chris on Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:16 pm

    Robyo wrote:Looks pretty badass. Can I play Ghostrider?

    Twisted Evil an undead rider, sure - what class?

    maybe the undead have undead mounts?

    thanks for the interest!
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Robyo on Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:49 pm

    Chris wrote:
    Robyo wrote:Looks pretty badass. Can I play Ghostrider?

    Twisted Evil an undead rider, sure - what class?

    maybe the undead have undead mounts?

    thanks for the interest!

    I was thinking some undead race, maybe revenant or ghost. The cycle is a construct... The two characters would have a telepathic connection, maybe. Hmm, need to work out the details.
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    Arcturus2

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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Arcturus2 on Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:54 pm

    Can I play a tiny race like a goblin or whatever that has a flesh golem for a mount?

    Like Masterblaster, if Master was a crazy goblin scientist and Blaster was Frankenstein's monster?
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:45 am

    Robyo wrote:
    I was thinking some undead race, maybe revenant or ghost. The cycle is a construct... The two characters would have a telepathic connection, maybe. Hmm, need to work out the details.


    I think something like that could work. You could use your RPs for your mount to buy it as a construct. All mounts still function using the handle animal\tricks\push rules and have Link, per the druid rules, so really no need for telepathy.

    as for the Undead race, ghost isn't an option, all undead (formerly the human race) use the Undead racial archetype, found in Adv Race Guide, here:

    Undead (16 RP)

    Undead races are once-living creatures animated by spiritual or supernatural forces. An undead race has the following features.

    Undead have no Constitution score. Undead use their Charisma score in place of their Constitution score when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that relies on Constitution (such as when calculating a breath weapon's DC).
    Undead have the darkvision 60 feet racial trait.
    Undead are immune to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
    Undead are immune to bleed damage, death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.
    Undead are not subject to nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain, and are immune to damage to physical ability scores (Constitution, Dexterity, and Strength), as well as to exhaustion and fatigue effects.
    Undead are harmed by positive energy and healed by negative energy. An undead creature with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.
    Undead are immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
    Undead do not risk death from massive damage, but are immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or fewer.
    Undead are not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
    Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep, unless they want to gain some beneficial effect from one of these activities. This means that an undead creature can drink potions to benefit from their effects and can sleep in order to regain spells, but neither of these activities is required to survive or stay in good health.

    so they are definitely corporeal undead, not ghosts, but have lots of cool benefits!

    though at 16 RPs, they won't have many free RPs to spend compared to other races, since they get so much front-loaded

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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:50 am

    Arcturus2 wrote:Can I play a tiny race like a goblin or whatever that has a flesh golem for a mount?

    Like Masterblaster, if Master was a crazy goblin scientist and Blaster was Frankenstein's monster?

    sure!

    the Mayan-type guys use crystal powered-suits for combat, as one option

    if you want more of the small fey type race, that is fine and we can work something out for his Blaster mount. A mount can certainly be bipedal.

    Blaster could be built in different ways, although a golem (construct) is certainly 1 of them. Like I said to Rob, that will eat up most of his points and follow the Construct race rules here:

    Construct (20 RP)

    A construct race is a group of animated objects or artificially created creatures. A construct race has the following features.

    Constructs have no Constitution score. Any DCs or other statistics that rely on a Constitution score treat a construct as having a score of 10 (no bonus or penalty).
    Constructs have the low-light vision racial trait.
    Constructs have the darkvision 60 feet racial trait.
    Constructs are immune to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
    Constructs cannot heal damage on their own, but can often be repaired via exposure to a certain kind of effect (depending on the construct's racial abilities) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat. Constructs can also be healed through spells such as make whole. A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.
    Constructs are not subject to ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, energy drain, or nonlethal damage.
    Constructs are immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
    Constructs do not risk death due to massive damage, but they are immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or fewer.
    Constructs cannot be raised or resurrected.
    Constructs are hard to destroy, and gain bonus hit points based on their size, as shown on the following table.

    Construct Size Bonus Hit Points
    Tiny -
    Small 10
    Medium 20
    Large 30

    Constructs do not breathe, eat, or sleep, unless they want to gain some beneficial effect from one of these activities. This means that a construct can drink potions to benefit from their effects and can sleep in order to regain spells, but neither of these activities is required to survive or stay in good health.
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Robyo on Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:50 am

    Revenant then. Or, he could still be a living being (Human or Fetchling/Shadeling) until he dons the helmet or rides the cycle... Since Undead is a template, would I have to split the RP cost betweern two races? He can only be one race at a time.

    Still thinking about class. Probably a gish... sorcerer/chain-mauler?

    Can the cycle be a hover-cycle? If flying is unbalancing for the game, maybe it just hovers 5' max. off the ground or something. It would be cool if it could ride up the side of buildings and such! pirat
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    Arcturus2

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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Arcturus2 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:56 am

    ..not sure about my mount construction yet, but definitely playing a magus. Maybe I can figure out how he can animate/control undead on a daily basis for a mount, idk. At high level definitely possible.
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:51 am

    Robyo wrote:Revenant then. Or, he could still be a living being (Human or Fetchling/Shadeling) until he dons the helmet or rides the cycle... Since Undead is a template, would I have to split the RP cost betweern two races? He can only be one race at a time.

    Still thinking about class. Probably a gish... sorcerer/chain-mauler?

    Can the cycle be a hover-cycle? If flying is unbalancing for the game, maybe it just hovers 5' max. off the ground or something. It would be cool if it could ride up the side of buildings and such! pirat

    unfortunately, all the humans are undead, it was an "all or nothing" pact with the devil Wink

    you could certainly have (at 7th) a magic helmet that caused a visual effect to come over him - ghostly images, spooky chains, hellfire.... a helmet that grants an Intimidate bonus maybe?

    I did forget to mention that there are no flying mounts. It just makes combat way too annoying. Visually hovering off the ground is cool!

    If you had the $$ left, maybe you could buy a permanent "spider climb" spell or Slippers (tires?) of Spider Climb for your mount. Then it would have it's full movement on any surface Twisted Evil
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:56 am

    Arcturus2 wrote:..not sure about my mount construction yet, but definitely playing a magus. Maybe I can figure out how he can animate/control undead on a daily basis for a mount, idk. At high level definitely possible.

    yeah, mount construction is still vague, sorry! I didn't expect so many great questions so quickly lol!

    He could definitely have an undead mount, like a Nightmare or something. Again, you could use RPs for your mount to buy him the Undead template.

    I think the companion\mount will be more of a permanent presence, since it is actually part of the character's package - as a bonus cavalier\druid ability. Those types are not "called" like a Paladin's mount, they are always hanging around.
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Arcturus2 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:44 am

    I was thinking along the lines of finding/making a corpse daily and just expending a spell slot to keep it controlled.. lol.

    But I don't know if that's possible At 7th level.

    This will be a cool crunch for sure, can't wait to get more info so we can start really looking at it.
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:54 am

    Arcturus2 wrote:I was thinking along the lines of finding/making a corpse daily and just expending a spell slot to keep it controlled.. lol.

    But I don't know if that's possible At 7th level.

    This will be a cool crunch for sure, can't wait to get more info so we can start really looking at it.

    I am sure we can figure something out, if that is really the direction you want to go.

    That sounds like it would be weaker than a more permanent option and cost you a spell slot, if its even an option. The animal companion\mount class feature is meant to be "in addition" to a full class, so it is an extra bonus to everyone, not something you need to use spells to have.

    for example, last time I ran SW, I have everyone 1 starship feat for free, an extra knowledge skill, etc. so that everyone could have a full character to play with AND be useful on a starship, since spaceship combat is taxing to be able to do for anyone other than a pure pilot (who is weaker on the ground).

    This is kind of the same idea - everyone gets a mount, that evolves and gets more powerful over time, plus some of the minor cavalier bonuses like no armor check for Ride, the Druid AC stuff like Link (easier to control the mount), shared spells, etc.
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    Arcturus2

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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Arcturus2 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:33 pm

    Yeah, after thinking it over in the shower, makes more sense the way you're saying it.

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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  whit10 on Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:15 pm

    I will be playing a Beast-man (or however you see them) elephant rider... at this point anyway Smile

    Just need a break for a week or so. I'm done being a whiny punk.
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:06 pm

    I know this is confusing, so I thought I might just share how I think this could work in terms of numbers.  I am going to use a couple quick examples based on the early ideas I have heard so far.  This is by no means final.  I am not trying to influence any decisions or make your characters for you, I am just using them as examples.

    Let's assume, using the info from the other thread, that both the PC and mount have 20 Racial Points to play with.  Remember, you get a mount for FREE + your normal class.

    Rob wants to make Ghostrider, an undead sorcerer\chain master riding a motorcycle that can drive up walls.  

    Josh wants to make a Beastman (let's just say fighter) riding an elephant


    ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Rob determines his attributes as usual.  Rob spends 16 of his 20 RPs to take the Undead racial package for himself.  see
    http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedRaceGuide/raceBuilder/racialQualities.html#size-quality

    that leaves him 4 RPs to pick up some other bonuses, maybe improved attributes or something

    Rob mostly wants his motorcycle to drive his character around, so he looks at the list of druid\cavalier mounts and chooses Horse (size large, with all stats included).  The horse follows the chart and scales up to 7.

    Rob uses all 20 of RPs to make the horse a Construct (with all benefits).  Rob visually re-skins the construct horse to look like a motorcycle and then uses some of his starting cash to buy Slippers of Spider Climbing for his mount, so he can drive up the walls.

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Josh determines his attributes and spends 3 RPs for Monstrous Humanoid, gaining Darkvision.  Josh spends 7 RP to become Large sized and 4 RPs for Advanced Attributes gaining +4 str, +2 dex +2 con and -2 to 1 mental attribute.  Josh picks up DR for 4 RPs, Stability 1 RP and Reach (reach now 10ft) for 1 RP.  that takes care of his 20 RP and makes him 1 big bad Beastman.

    Josh also chooses a Horse as his mount, but makes different choices to re-skin it into a Murmakil.  +7 RPs to increase its size from Large to Huge, 4 RPs for stronger stats.  Josh gives his Elephant natural attacks (tusks), a Powerful Charge and increased speed while charging to represent its Trampling ability.

    ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Following the Druid chart, both mounts have 6HD, save bonuses, 6 skills, 3 Feats, +2 str\dex, Evasion, shared spells, Devotion and Link (for easier handling)

    that is just a quick example, obviously they could choose a different base mount, but I just wanted to illustrate that the initial animal choice is just a set of stats that can be manipulated with RPs and re-skinned in any way you choose.
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  whit10 on Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:08 pm

    wow... lot's of maths involved. Smile

    I like this explanation though... it helps
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    Arcturus2

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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Arcturus2 on Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:08 pm

    Yeah, nice explanation. This is gonna be seriously crunchy. Have you decided yet what small races are available? I really wanna play something small and conniving, like a goblin or a rat person..

    Josh, glad you're not leaving man! cheers
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Robyo on Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:43 pm

    Chris, thanks for the examples. cheers Am I to understand we can spend 20 RP for each character: PC + Mount, so 20 + 20? Just making sure. And, we are effectively playing two characters, which I am fine with, just that one of them happens to be a mount. Using the druid/ranger animal companion rules. Can we give the mount class levels?

    Maybe you already addressed this earlier. I need to reread the other thread.
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  whit10 on Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:10 pm

    Arcturus2 wrote: Josh, glad you're not leaving man! cheers

    Yeah, I decided that I still enjoy this... just need a break for a bit. Alan said I'm welcome back in his thing too but I will wait for this encounter to end so that everything stays on the up and up.
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:05 pm

    Elliot - 1 of the small races (from the other thread) is a kind of a re-skinned gnome with Mayan culture - mathematicians, pyramid builders and crystal-mancers.  They have golems, crazy machines and energy weapons, all powered with magical crystals.

    The other small\Tiny race is still open....  if you have something in mind, flesh it out and pitch it this way!

    The bestial race is also a blank slate, really, you could buy "small" size instead of "large" and go that route too. So it is a definite "YES" just a question of how you want to do it.

    Rob - yes, 20 RPs (+attributes and 7 class levels) for your PC and 20 RPs + druid\cav animal (core stats + adv).  The mount has skills, feats, etc as part of being an AC\mount, but it does not get "levels" of its own.  I think they get 3 feats and maybe 6 skills.  

    You are controlling both, but the AC\Mount is going to still be just that, an AC\Mount.  It can have personality but it will likely have an "animal" intelligence (unless you spend points to raise it or choose a smarted base animal).  

    I am ballpark figuring that a 7th lvl PC (with slightly higher RPs than normal 8-14 range of races) + a bonus 6HD super powered mount is going to make an ECL (equivalent character level) of about 9-10 in terms of CRs (challenge ratings).

    It is definitely a bit crunchier, but those RPs spend in a hurry!
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  whit10 on Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:00 pm

    I could be missing something... so, I get the part with character creation for the actual character and the RPs (that's pretty cool BTW).  Do the Animal Companions still advance as they do on the Druid Animal Companion chart, just with the stats we generate from however the RPs shake out?

    That could mess with stats for the Animal Companion (unless you have a method for that)

    Just need that clarified
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:49 pm

    whit10 wrote:I could be missing something... so, I get the part with character creation for the actual character and the RPs (that's pretty cool BTW).  Do the Animal Companions still advance as they do on the Druid Animal Companion chart, just with the stats we generate from however the RPs shake out?

    That could mess with stats for the Animal Companion (unless you have a method for that)

    Just need that clarified

    If I am reading the question correctly, the answer is "both".

    so take the horse-turned-Murmakil example from above.....

    horse starts with a stat line like this:

    Horse

    Starting Statistics: Size Large; Speed 50 ft.; AC +4 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4), 2 hooves* (1d6); Ability Scores Str 16, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent. *This is a secondary natural attack, see Combat for more information on how secondary attacks work.

    4th-Level Advancement: Ability Scores Str +2, Con +2; Special Qualities combat trained (see the Handle Animal skill).

    + 20 RPs for special abilities or alternate racial (undead\construct\etc).  That is going to pump up the horse to begin with and make him into a baseline Murmakil (let's call it an "epic" mount).

    follow the Druid\Cav chart, so at 7th level, if you read across it has

    6HD, +4 BAB, +5\+5\+2 saves, 6 skills, 3 feats, +4 natural armor, +2 str\dex, Link, shared spells, evasion, etc etc etc  (This is the equivalent of it's class)


    **behind the scenes, the initial animal is just a package of stats.  some are more geared towards fast movement (horse, wolf), some towards melee fighting (tiger, bear), some have more special abilities (snake, croc), etc.  

    Then you customize it to "epic" status with 20 RPs.

    That becomes it's new race - construct motorcycle, Murmakil, etc

    At that point, it just advances along the Druid chart as usual, it just starts with a higher baseline because of the 20 RPs.  

    The same is really true of your PC, you build a custom (stronger) race with 20 RPs, then it advances as any other PC with your class.
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  whit10 on Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:11 pm

    ..and since we are all the same and the encounters can be adjusted accordingly it works out. Nicely thought out sir!

    Think I've got it. I'm basically making a quasi-African Klingon on a war mastodon. Twisted Evil

    I like the RP thing. Nice for them to chart that out
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    Arcturus2

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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Arcturus2 on Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:02 am

    So.... just for the sake of argument, what if I wanted to play a pegasus/centaur hybrid? He wouldn't need a mount.. would he get extra RP to spend on himself? Or is having a mount a requisite for the game?

    I'm still leaning towards a goblin-kin race with a construct mount.

    I was thinking of a designing a Gremlin- a techno-goblin, make it a goblin-kin race that fuses science and magic. Maybe do some reskinning of RP stuff as clockwork augmentations to his body.. (For example, his darkvision could be artificial lenses or whatever)
    Make him mechanically inclined, handy with gadgets and crafts and whatnot.

    I still think Magus would be a neat class to play. He could be a mad scientist techno wizard with a steampunk flavor.

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    Arcturus2

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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Arcturus2 on Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:01 am

    Also, since 20 RP to spend puts us at the top of the advanced power level, are we sticking to the cap of buying 4 traits per category?
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:35 am

    Arcturus2 wrote:So.... just for the sake of argument, what if I wanted to play a pegasus/centaur hybrid? He wouldn't need a mount.. would he get extra RP to spend on himself? Or is having a mount a requisite for the game?

    I'm still leaning towards a goblin-kin race with a construct mount.

    I was thinking of a designing a Gremlin- a techno-goblin, make it a goblin-kin race that fuses science and magic. Maybe do some reskinning of RP stuff as clockwork augmentations to his body.. (For example, his darkvision could be artificial lenses or whatever)  
    Make him mechanically inclined, handy with gadgets and crafts and whatnot.

    I still think Magus would be a neat class to play. He could be a mad scientist techno wizard with a steampunk flavor.


    Actually having a mount is kind of the "schtick" of the game Wink

    Also, if I failed to mention.... no inherently flying mounts.

    So your description of a race sounds VERY similar to the description I gave

    Chris wrote:
    At least 1 of the smaller races have come up from the underground, chased above ground is more appropriate, I suppose. They have a highly advanced form of crystal-mancy magic. Culturally they are akin to something like Mayans - stargazers, mathematicians, pyramid builders, etc. They have been above ground now for a few hundred years, enough to build new cities and adapt. They use crystals and magic as a form of arcane technology. They power their creations with crystals charged with magic. They have strange devices (something Alan would create) and some forms of energy weapons and crystal powered droids.

    you could certainly re-skin some of his racial bonuses as almost magical-crystal-cyberware! that would be cool

    I am not tied to the race's exact appearance, so a goblin-kin skin is fine by me

    He could drive (ride) a powered armor suit (metal golem) for a mount, like a mecha..... why does a goblin mecha pilot sound familiar??? lol!

    Yes - follow the RP rules, so 4 traits per category for both mounts and PCs
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Arcturus2 on Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:59 am

    All right. I thought having a mount was kinda the point,  just making sure.

    And assuming I can pick his own traits, I'll definitely by your Mayan race.

    ..decided on a half-construct jaguar (cyber-cat) for a mount.

    So without looking at the book, I think that'd be close to:
    Character:
    Humanoid: 0 RP
    Monstrous: 3 RP
    Small: 0 RP
    Xenophobic: 0 RP
    Advanced 3 or 5 RP
    with the balance of RP going to traits..

    Mount:
    Half construct: 5 or 10 RP
    Monstrous: 3 RP
    Medium: 0 extra HP/0 RP
    Fast: +10 speed/3 RP
    with the balance of RP going to traits..

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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:39 pm

    Arcturus2 wrote:All right. I thought having a mount was kinda the point,  just making sure.

    And assuming I can pick his own traits, I'll definitely by your Mayan race.

    ..decided on a half-construct jaguar (cyber-cat) for a mount.

    So without looking at the book, I think that'd be close to:
    Character:
    Humanoid: 0 RP
    Monstrous: 3 RP
    Small: 0 RP
    Xenophobic: 0 RP
    Advanced 3 or 5 RP
    with the balance of RP going to traits..

    Mount:
    Half construct: 5 or 10 RP
    Monstrous: 3 RP
    Medium: 0 extra HP/0 RP
    Fast: +10 speed/3 RP
    with the balance of RP going to traits..


    yeah, that can definitely work!

    I love the cyber-jag mount cheers
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:05 pm

    Chris wrote:please don't post here, so this thread can stay clean with just world\rules info

    posts moved to "discussion" thread study

    moved from the main thread

    Robyo wrote:Starting at 7th level, correct? Do we get any Mythic Tiers?

    I'm leaning towards a Good-aligned character, possibly making a paladin or cleric. Strict Pathfinder rules that there is no no non-evil undead. That seems stupid. What's the DM's call? I think an Undead Paladin of the Raven Queen (or substitute DM's deity of death) would be pretty cool.

    I'm interested in hearing more background story and fluff about the campaign world and cultures. What state is the human/undead race in? I'm really not interested in playing a dhampir or anything "vampiric", but a revenant, like in 4e might work.

    Here's from the Wiki:
    "Revenants are souls of the dead returned to a semblance of life by the Raven Queen, but they do not appear as undead horrors or even anything like their former selves. When the Raven Queen reincarnates souls, they exist as her special creations, and they have the bodies of her choosing and creation. In this way, such souls are always marked as representatives of the Raven Queen’s power.

    A revenant has a body that is slender for his or her height, but this form possesses an uncanny toughness that contradicts the apparent build. Revenants have the same range of complexions as humans, but a revenant’s skin is ashen and the features are sunken. Eyes are most commonly solid black with a single point of red light in place of a pupil, but other eerie eye colors—including yellow, white, silver, and gold—are not uncommon, although they always share the same fiery red pupil. In most cases, the eyes lack an iris and pupil, and some glow with a ghostly light. Revenant hair typically ranges from black to white. They can grow facial hair, and males often have beards or mustaches that accentuate their dreadful countenances.
    Revenant

    A revenant’s face and skin clearly set a member of this unique race apart from other humanoids. A revenant’s visage has a masklike quality that can be disturbing to normal mortals. Rough, dark scales appear on the flesh near the ends of a revenant’s limbs, marking the revenant as one of those the Raven Queen allowed back into the world of the living. Revenant digits end in strong, black fingernails or toenails that resemble claws.

    Each revenant is unique, but ties to the Shadowfell draw most to dark colors and clothing that can help them escape notice. Whether because of dark humor or as a warning to others, their clothing and gear bear symbols that are reminders of death or duty. Revenants use raven feathers, bones, chains, grave markers, and skulls for decoration."


    And I like the idea of his magical helmet giving him the ghostly visage and effects. For weapons, he'll use the spiked chain and maybe a sniper rifle. Are there laser guns? What is the technology level of this campaign?


    Finally, not sure how fleshed-out your pantheon is, but the Raven Queen is a pretty cool deity. Here's from the wiki:
    "The Raven Queen
    Unaligned

    The name of the god of death is long forgotten, but she is called the Raven Queen. She is the spinner of fate and the patron of winter. She marks the end of each mortal life, and mourners call upon her during funeral rites, in the hope that she will guard the departed from the curse of undeath. She expects her followers to abide by these commandments:

       Hold no pity for those who suffer and die, for death is the natural end of life.
       Bring down the proud who try to cast off the chains of fate. As the instrument of the Raven Queen, you must punish hubris where you find it.
       Watch for the cults of Orcus and stamp them out whenever they arise. The Demon Prince of the Undead seeks to claim the Raven Queen's throne.

    The Raven Queen was once a powerful mortal sorceror-queen. When she died, she came to Pluton, the domain of the evil death god Nerull. Nerull, impressed with her will and ambition, gave her form and made her his consort, naming her Nera. She stole Nerull's power over mortal shades, and by freeing most of them she managed to destroy Nerull and become the new god of death.

    After overthrowing Nerull, she erased her true name from the knowledge of all creatures then abandoned Pluton and created her own realm in the mountains of Letherna in the Shadowfell."

    I see nothing in the description of undead as a race that mentions alignment at all.  I am not sure where you are getting that from, but a race is a race.  Alignment is a choice.  As I said in the main thread, humans\undead are not inherently evil.

    Mythic Tiers - not yet Wink

    Revenant sounds about right and the description of the Raven Queen is also fine.  They are not inherently "vampiric" though some chose to go that route by other means.  Again, just look at the Undead racial template - nothing vampiric there.

    Technology is a more a reflection of culture, then a general state of being.  

    The mini-mayans are the only ones with anything close to energy weapons - since they are the crystal-mancers and have a means to power something like that.  In truth, these are just re-skinned magical wands, staves, rods.

    The bestial races make lots of machines and definitely have primitive guns (they did kill their gods afterall)

    The humans (pre-undead state) were pretty typical medieval fantasy genre, so muzzle loaders and cannons would be fine, but not as effective as long bows (probably).  

    That doesn't mean you can't have equipment from other cultures.  Just think about re-skinning a magic item.  If you can't inherently use a wand of fireballs (big gun), then you would be buying special bullets for another gun (necklace of fireballs).  

    No stats will change, but you can re-skin stuff in basically any way you want.  The necklace of fireball bullets, would just have a short range, for example.  Or maybe they are like grenades?  

    Or just buy the feat that gives you Firearms proficiency.

    however you want to do it.   The cultures, races and equipment in PF as a set of rules will remain unchanged.  All I am really talking about, in any case above, is re-skinning things from PF.

    Does that help?
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Arcturus2 on Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:11 pm

    So, starting cash? Standard 7th level? Restrictions on magical items?
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Arcturus2 on Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:12 pm

    Arcturus2 wrote:So, starting cash? Standard 7th level? Restrictions on magical items?

    My guy is definitely gonna be a warrior techno-mancer.
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:38 pm

    Arcturus2 wrote:So, starting cash? Standard 7th level? Restrictions on magical items?

    Yes

    No, but GM approval for anything unusual

    just keep in mind that re-skinning does not inherently change anything, including what "slot" an item occupies.

    So you can't reskin a belt of str +2 to shoes of str +2. All physical ability modifying items are belts, so you can't stack them up for instance (mental ones are headbands).

    But you could re-skin Slippers of Spider Climbing into space-age magnetic boots or horseshoes (or tires) to put them on your mount.

    Potions could be injections (used on yourself or others, as usual) or STIM patches or something consumable.

    If something does "fire" damage, it still does, you can't re-skin to a different elemental damage type. A wand of burning hands re-skinned into a Flamethrower is fine, but not into an acid spray-gun.

    you must use your starting funds for any items for your mounts - no extra cash
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Arcturus2 on Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:06 pm

    Gotcha. Sounds legit.
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:07 pm

    so I was thinking.....

    essentially I am requiring a mount, since this is a mounted campaign idea.  I am giving everyone Mounted Combat (feat) + druid\cav Animal Companion\Mount for free.

    I realized in looking at the numbers of skills for most classes, it would be really taxing to have to buy all the skills one might want to go along with having a mount:

    Ride, Handle Animal and Heal\Repair come to mind, not to mention any kinds of Knowledge skills or Crafting skills (exotic saddles, special racial mounted-weapons, etc).

    I am leaning towards giving each PC an additional pool of skill points that can be spent only on any of the "mounted" skills.  At 7th level, I am thinking that you would get +2 skill points per level, so a total of +14 skill points that can only be used on the following skills, which are automatically CLASS SKILLS regardless of your actual class (which gives a further +3 bonus)

    Ride
    Handle Animal
    Heal or Repair (depending on whether your mount is living or a construct - remember constructs CANNOT be healed by divine magic, only repaired by arcane magic)
    Know Nature or Geography
    Craft: anything mount related
    Profession: anything mount related

    unless I hear strong objections, we will probably go with this, so you can figure in those points as you look at character building ideas
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:16 pm

    furthermore, regarding constructs in general, there are mirror spells to the Cure Wounds spells. There is a Repair Light Damage, Moderate, Serious, etc spells, in addition to the existing spells like Rapid Repair and Make Whole. They are all Arcane (not divine) spells and function otherwise just like the the Cure Wounds series in the Divine lists and are of the same Spell Level.

    For the Undead races\mounts, obviously any of the Inflict Wounds series of spells (per the spell description) actually heals undead for the same amount. Essentially it is channeling negative energy instead of positive energy. The Cure Wounds series inflicts damage to Undead instead. There are also a Arcane spells like Repair Undead and of course Channeling Negative Energy by a Cleric or Paladin.
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  whit10 on Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:56 pm

    Cool with me.
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Arcturus2 on Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:30 pm

    Good thinking!
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  whit10 on Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:15 pm

    Just to give others an idea of my insanity... I'm basically planning on playing a Thundercat on Battle cat.

    Alan ain't the only one with screwy ideas. Wink
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  whit10 on Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:28 pm

    Mr. GM, would Teamwork Feats be allowed for mounts if they have an Int. of 3 or higher?  It doesn't say whether or not a mount could also be a beneficiary of one of those feats (assuming that they have it as well, or the character is a Cavalier)  

    Though the Animal Companion Feat list says that an AC can take feat that it can qualify for if it has a 3 or higher Int.; with GM discretion of course.

    just wondered.
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Robyo on Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:46 am

    My $.02: Rather than futzing around with augmenting animal companion rules, IMHO it would just be easier to build two separate characters. Then we simply play them as master/mount. They would go on the same turn, but have their own separate action resources. Except when mounted, then they would share movement. Another idea is to use 5e rules for movement/action, where you can move and attack, so long as you still have actions or movement to spend. It gives more incentive to pull all kinds of nasty hit-and-run tactics. Maybe the mount is 1/2 level of the master. Just putting thoughts out there for consideration.


    Ghost Rider was the spring board idea, but my concept is evolving more towards making a version of the Pale Rider of the Apocalypse. I like the idea of playing an undead cleric of death, but not particularly evil. The Raven Queen is True Neutral, but maybe PR leans more to the good side.
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:55 am

    Robyo wrote:My $.02: Rather than futzing around with augmenting animal companion rules, IMHO it would just be easier to build two separate characters. Then we simply play them as master/mount. They would go on the same turn, but have their own separate action resources. Except when mounted, then they would share movement. Another idea is to use 5e rules for movement/action, where you can move and attack, so long as you still have actions or movement to spend. It gives more incentive to pull all kinds of nasty hit-and-run tactics. Maybe the mount is 1/2 level of the master. Just putting thoughts out there for consideration.


    Ghost Rider was the spring board idea, but my concept is evolving more towards making a version of the Pale Rider of the Apocalypse. I like the idea of playing an undead cleric of death, but not particularly evil. The Raven Queen is True Neutral, but maybe PR leans more to the good side.

    no worries on the concepts at this stage, we are a ways off.

    Thanks for the input on mounts\characters.   Most of what you are describing is how PF already deals with mounts - they go on the same turn, have their own actions, etc.   The only tinkering is really just giving everyone 20 RPs to customize their mount.   Having looked at some customizations myself and seen a couple of Josh's variants, it really doesn't amount to as much as you might think.  20 RPs gets spent quickly.   The AC rules are already done, the advancement chart is done, the 7th level upgrade stats are done.... it is already all balanced (as balanced as PF gets, lol).

    Giving everyone 1 extra feat (mounted combat) and 2 extra skills, along with a free AC just raises the ECL of the party and allows me to up the CRs from 7 to 9-10 as a base.

    Sorry, but I am not switching to 5e or 4e.  I don't want to learn a new system to GM and based on my SR-SW experience, players don't want to learn new systems either.  PF already has everything we need and everyone knows it.
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Robyo on Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:52 am

    Alright sounds good. I will peruse the rules and update in time.
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  MAS on Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:35 pm

    Are any classes out of bounds?


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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:51 am

    MAS wrote:Are any classes out of bounds?

    No, but since everyone is getting one of the main class features from Druid\Cavalier\Samuri for free already, those classes don't make much sense to me. I don't really want to bother with figuring out how to compensate them for something they should already get, but since it's a big bonus to every other class, they would be weaker by comparison.

    If you are really interested in any of those 3, then talk to me first. My suggestion, off the top of my head, would be to look at any archetypes for those classes that take away the AC\Mount and replace it with something else, since you will still get the AC\Mount anyways.

    I know they all have some nice abilities for being mounted, but I also think you can find something similar in other class archetypes.
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  whit10 on Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:29 pm

    Samurai is basically an Archetype in the first place, I'm almost certain that there aren't any variants for them.

    Maybe incorporate some of the Fighter Archetype stuff for Rough Rider? They get some nice bonuses to buff the whole party. They're not totally worthless. lol
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  MAS on Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:22 pm

    Chris wrote:
    MAS wrote:Are any classes out of bounds?

    No, but since everyone is getting one of the main class features from Druid\Cavalier\Samuri for free already, those classes don't make much sense to me.  I don't really want to bother with figuring out how to compensate them for something they should already get, but since it's a big bonus to every other class, they would be weaker by comparison.

    If you are really interested in any of those 3, then talk to me first.  My suggestion, off the top of my head, would be to look at any archetypes for those classes that take away the AC\Mount and replace it with something else, since you will still get the AC\Mount anyways.  

    I know they all have some nice abilities for being mounted, but I also think you can find something similar in other class archetypes.

    naw, Im thinking "Alchemist". Throwing bombs and delivering poisons. For a skin, think of lethal spores, spiked vines, venus flytraps - the more exotic forms of plant life, weaponized....
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    Re: DISCUSSION THREAD

    Post  Chris on Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:54 am

    MAS wrote:
    naw, Im thinking "Alchemist". Throwing bombs and delivering poisons. For a skin, think of lethal spores, spiked vines, venus flytraps - the more exotic forms of plant life, weaponized....

    get out of my head!

    err..... I mean.... yes, that is totally fine cheers

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