Shivak VS Spike duel map

whit10 wrote:fuck it, it's only a test... sacrifice the next complex action to deflect the bolts... so I roll...?

ok, going with the above as a test...

do you want to deflect only?
or deflect and redirect?

if deflect only... roll it twice, once with adding dodge and once without

ok, still not all that clear why I'm rolling twice but here goes anyway...

Dodge + Missile Parry + Reaction (augmented by spell +3) (-1 for damage) = 15 dice

Roll(15d6)+0:
6,5,6,4,6,5,3,1,1,6,2,4,4,4,3,+0

6 hits, shot deflected

2nd shot:

14 dice

Roll(14d6)+0:
3,2,2,6,1,2,5,4,5,6,3,1,6,6,+0

six hits, shot deflected


2nd rolls?  Reaction plus Dodge (why am I rolling this?)

Reaction + Missile Parry -1, 11 dice

Roll(11d6)+0:
2,2,6,6,5,6,3,5,1,5,3,

7 hits

2nd shot:

Roll(10d6)+0:
4,5,3,4,2,6,5,3,5,2,

4 hits

so... no damage either way?

whit10 wrote:ok, still not all that clear why I'm rolling twice but here goes anyway...

Dodge + Missile Parry + Reaction (augmented by spell +3) (-1 for damage) = 15 dice

Roll(15d6)+0:
6,5,6,4,6,5,3,1,1,6,2,4,4,4,3,+0

6 hits, shot deflected

2nd shot:

14 dice

Roll(14d6)+0:
3,2,2,6,1,2,5,4,5,6,3,1,6,6,+0

six hits, shot deflected


2nd rolls?  Reaction plus Dodge (why am I rolling this?)

Reaction + Missile Parry -1, 11 dice

Roll(11d6)+0:
2,2,6,6,5,6,3,5,1,5,3,

7 hits

2nd shot:

Roll(10d6)+0:
4,5,3,4,2,6,5,3,5,2,

4 hits

so... no damage either way?

it is the issue of whether or not a ranged attack should include + Dodge for free or not. I just wanted to see what the rolls looked like

Honestly, I forgot about the Missile Deflect Adept Power (which is essentially adding extra dice without actually needing Dodge).

I think this could work for Jedi\Sith as written in SR4e. defense against Ranged attacks is only Reaction + Missile Defense (if you have it) which is a special Jedi\Sith ability (adept) and most folks won't have access to this or a lightsaber

on Full Defense, the Jedi\Sith could add his Dodge (per SR4e) and really up his defense
or
on Full Defense, the Jedi\Sith could split his dice pools and add half his Dodge and use the other half for his Lightsaber (attack) skill to redirect. this is kind of like Alan attacking with 2 wpns, you would have to split that Dodge\Lightsaber pool.

How does this sound? it stays most true to the rules as written and I think it handles the Deflect\Redirect issue fairly for both shooters and Jedi\Sith. Thoughts?

ok, so rolling with this joint for the moment.....

using Full Defense, as above, Shivak Deflected both shots, but he did not split his dice pool, so he can't redirect

SPIKE is done

Shivak has used his complex action, but he still has a Free action

Shivak is up

I think that's fair for now. Shivak can move behind the car (or whatever) to get some cover, yes?

That would be his only action

Chris wrote:

Combat Turn 1

Initiative Pass (IP) 1

Spike 17  X
Shivak 16 X

IP 2
Spike 17  X
Shivak 16 X

IP 3
Spike 17
Shivak 16

IP 4
Spike 17
Shivak 16

map is still current.

**Is it Shivak's intention to dive behind the car, so that SPIKE can't see him or keep part of his body visible so he can see SPIKE and deflect blaster fire?

Spike is up, pending answer to above

partially visible

Not a jedi, spike muses quietly. A jedi would've come right at me. Are the Sith fighting amoumgst themselves?

He drops the pistols (free)
Shoulders the grenade launcher (simple)
And flobs a high explosive into the car. (Simple).
53261432 = 2 hits

10 dmg, -2 AP, -1dmg each 2m

whit10 wrote:partially visible

ok, counts as "good cover" +4 to defense tests, but Blind Fire rules are not in effect

thanks for using the cover, I hoped that someone would so we could see how it interacts

navyik wrote:Not a jedi, spike muses quietly. A jedi would've come right at me.  Are the Sith fighting amoumgst themselves?

He drops the pistols (free)
Shoulders the grenade launcher (simple)
And flobs a high explosive into the car. (Simple).
53261432 = 2 hits

10 dmg, -2 AP, -1dmg each 2m

I love you guys, thanks for using all your toys!  I dig it that SPIKE is playing in-character too, that makes it more fun

ok, grenade rules, pg 155.....

I am assuming that you are within range on your grenade launcher, so you hit the car with 2 "hits"

Scatter diagram roll
Result of the throw of dice "1d6" :

6

grenade scatters to the upper left of the intended target

grenade launchers have a scatter distance of 3d6
Result of the throw of dice "3d6" :

2 + 1 + 1 = 4

4 meters, which gets reduced by 2m per net hit, so 4 -2 = 2m scattered from the car, to the upper left, in a line from SPIKE.  To me, that honestly looks like SPIKE lobbed the grenade OVER the car and right next to Shivak.  lucky shot!

Blast effect - damage is reduced by -2 per meter.  each hex counts as 2m, so 10P damage is reduced to 6P for Shivak (that seems weak.....)

***Alan, where are you getting -1 per 2m? I see the opposite on pg 156. I see -2\m or -2 damage per meter***

the grenade does damage to Shivak's cover, for which I am using "cheap sports car" from page 351, the Ford Spirali
it has a body of 10 and armor  of 4 (6-2).    It also takes 6P

Result of the throw of dice "14d6" :

3 + 1 + 6 + 5 + 4 + 5 + 1 + 1 + 6 + 5 + 3 + 3 + 5 + 2 = 50

6 hits, so apparently it is built Ford- tough and takes no damage (seems really weak for a grenade)




the grenade went past Shivak's cover, so the +4 defense test does not help Shivak in this case.

Shivak needs to roll his Body + Armor (-2ap) to soak another 6P

SPIKE is done, Shivak is up

quick question... are all weapons and such going to downgrade armor?

Roll(10d6)+0:
6,2,6,2,2,3,5,4,6,3

4 hits, spend one Edge point to buy another success, 1 box of damage (that right?)

whit10 wrote:quick question... are all weapons and such going to downgrade armor?

Roll(10d6)+0:
6,2,6,2,2,3,5,4,6,3

4 hits, spend one Edge point to buy another success, 1 box of damage (that right?)

just look at the rules, some wpns do, some don't.... obviously the good ones lessen the value of armor.

Shivak is up

Shivak is going to summon up the power of the Force inside him and try to 'touch' the mind of his adversary...


"Why do you attack me, I am here to help you... I am not your enemy, you must have been lied to."

Cast Control Thoughts... Spellcasting + Force of spell + power focus? (11 dice) Would he also get the bonus from his Empathy power (or anything else)?

whit10 wrote:Shivak is going to summon up the power of the Force inside him and try to 'touch' the mind of his adversary...


"Why do you attack me, I am here to help you... I am not your enemy, you must have been lied to."

Cast Control Thoughts...  Spellcasting + Force of spell + power focus?  (11 dice)   Would he also get the bonus from his Empathy power (or anything else)?

not quite....

roll Spellcasting + Magic Attribute + power focus

Force determines particulars of spell and drain, in this case:

Control Thoughts (Mental)
Type: M • Range: LOS • Duration: S • DV: (F ÷ 2) + 2

The caster seizes control of the target’s mind, directing everything the
target does. The caster mentally gives commands with a Simple Action
and the target is compelled to obey.

Control Thoughts affects a single target, while Mob Mind affects
any living targets within the area of effect.

Force of the spell determines the MAXIMUM number of hits that are possible and the drain

so for example, if you cast with a 4 Force, you could get a max of 4 hits - this is what SPIKE has to beat in the resisted test to counter the effect
and have a drain value (DV) of (4 \ 2) +2 = 4, which Shivak needs to roll to soak

details:

Mental Manipulations: For Mental Manipulation spells, the
caster makes an Opposed Spellcasting + Magic Test against the target’s
Willpower (+ Counterspelling, if available). If the caster scores more hits,
she controls the target as noted in the spell description. Every (Force)
Combat Turns, the victim may spend a Complex Action to shake off the
mental control. The victim rolls a Willpower (+ Counterspelling) Test;
each hit reduces the net hits on the caster’s original Spellcasting Test. If the
spellcaster’s net hits are reduced to 0, the spell no longer affects the target.

That'd be a force 5 then.

Spell casting + Magic Attribute + power focus (cancelled by damage) = 11 dice

Roll(11d6)+0:
2,1,6,3,6,2,5,2,6,6,4

5 hits...

I'll roll drain in a bit, trying to get done with work.

To resist will+counterspell
(Hostile manipulation)
5+6+3=14 dice
15212546415623=5 hits

Chris was right on grenades, I just remembered it backwards. But josh was right about thermal detonators.

navyik wrote:Chris was right on grenades, I just remembered it backwards.  But josh was right about thermal detonators.

laugh it up, fuzzball

honestly, -1 per 2m (1 hex) makes more sense than -2 per 1m (1/2 hex). who counts 1/2 hexes anyways??

Alan, where did you get the 25% discount for Warrior's Way from? I don't see that anywhere.

Drain roll:

Roll(13d6)+0:
3,3,4,6,5,6,6,1,5,5,2,2,1

6 hits... that should cover it (Drain value was 4)

so... I can't affect you with magic and I already know I won't be able to do shit to you with the lightsaber... we can continue this for the sake of learning dice but it's clear you have a significant advantage across the board

Way of the adept p.14

wait, there's a separate book for Adepts? Yeah, I don't have that one.

Honestly, this is pretty pointless. Since Alan found the uber-crunch (nicely done BTW) there is nothing I can realistically do to his character.

I'm going to need that book or it will have to be nixed (so that things remain fair)

I'm not saying we should stop... I just see where this is going, all things being equal

There's no honor in this...

"I think we should talk, Shivak. Yes, I know your name." He stowes the GL. "I have decided not to collect your bounty." He picks up his disruptor pistols and holsters them.

Now we'll see who this guy really is...

He turns his back and begins to walk away.
"The authorities will be coming soon, why don't we get a drink? My treat, of course."

"An excellent notion" (extinguishing his lightsaber but leery of this heavily armored mercenary)

so hey, Alan, since I don't have that book, can you tell me if that's a thing that's only open to adepts or mystic adepts as well? The discount for powers... or is there another catch?

nevermind... got the book

whit10 wrote:
so... I can't affect you with magic and I already know I won't be able to do shit to you with the lightsaber... we can continue this for the sake of learning dice but it's clear you have a significant advantage across the board

whit10 wrote:
Honestly, this is pretty pointless. Since Alan found the uber-crunch (nicely done BTW) there is nothing I can realistically do to his character.
I'm going to need that book or it will have to be nixed (so that things remain fair)

whit10 wrote:I'm not saying we should stop... I just see where this is going, all things being equal

when did you become French?

ok, go back to the drawing board

navyik wrote:There's no honor in this...

"I think we should talk, Shivak. Yes, I know your name." He stowes the GL. "I have decided not to collect your bounty." He picks up his disruptor pistols and holsters them.

Now we'll see who this guy really is...

He turns his back and begins to walk away.
"The authorities will be coming soon, why don't we get a drink? My treat, of course."

well played, sir

whit10 wrote:"An excellent notion" (extinguishing his lightsaber but leery of this heavily armored mercenary)

I said this would be a sandbox, so here is your chance!

this is how Shivak and Spike met. roleplay out that drink and figure out some back story for the "contact" that hired you both to kill each other.....

GM parameters - the "contact" is still alive (plot hook) and you only have limited information about how to find the "contact"

I will even set up your next test. "I have decided not to collect your bounty, but a man still has to eat. I think our skillsets may be... Complementary. What do you say? Shall we find some more valuable prey?"

a sly smile broadens around Shivak's face... "That is my specialty... There must be a remotely decent Restaurant on this planet"

Not being French at all... I'm being Italian. If ya can't beat 'em, join 'em.

BTW, he is not wearing heavy armor (he seldom does).

word. Any distinguishing marks?

...and not that it really matters but, what planet are we on, Mr. GM?

whit10 wrote:word.  Any distinguishing marks?

Nagai. Pale. Tall and wiry, with perfect black anime hair and perfect posture. Tattooed sleeves representing family history- a record of honorable deeds, from battle heroics to plain ol' hard work and family honor.

Spike is soft spoken, but by no means shy. His mother taught him that one with greater honor should not need to raise his voice. (Those who are worthy should already be listening).

Looking more at their history, they have been conquered by the Tofs, but haven't yet "sided" with the republic. He is part of a scattered remnant with no directive or contact... Yet. Perhaps some of those events fast-track in this alternate thread?

(looks at race)... cool! Never heard of 'em but they sound pretty sweet.

Shivak acts like a nobleman wherever he goes... he's deferential to ladies, forceful with those who disagree with him, but always cordial and respectful.... unless someone has been rude.

whit10 wrote:
Not being French at all... I'm being Italian.  If ya can't beat 'em, join 'em.  

Touche!  ok, you win.  I can't argue with that logic.  

navyik wrote:BTW, he is not wearing heavy armor (he seldom does).

picture out of armor, when you get a chance?

whit10 wrote:...and not that it really matters but, what planet are we on, Mr. GM?

it's a sandbox.... you tell me what planet you are on

or at least give me a clue what region of space: Core Worlds (Coruscant, Corelia, etc), Fringe (Nal Hutta, Tatooine, Kintan etc) Mid-rim (Naboo, Balmorra, Kamino, Ord Mantell)

navyik wrote:I will even set up your next test.  "I have decided not to collect your bounty, but a man still has to eat.  I think our skillsets may be... Complementary.  What do you say?  Shall we find some more valuable prey?"

that's fine.... but please do figure out between Spike and Shivak some more information about the mysterious "contact"

Mid rim, I think.

The contact is a tipster who supplies contracts for bounty hunters. He sent us after eachother. Figuring to profit off of either bounty, or maybe both. A sure thing... Or perhaps not.

navyik wrote:Mid rim, I think.

very good.... let's say Balmorra.

Balmorra is primarily known as the home of the Balmorran Arms Company, which boasts multiple factories and refineries all over the planet.  There is a native arthropod race called the Collicoids.  Little is known of them, as they live primarily underground.  Balmorra is a rocky, but temperate planet.

Balmorra Arms Co has changed hands many times in the last 300 years of open war.  Their factories now resemble fortresses from the constant states of siege.  During the Galactic Cold War (period of the last campaign), Republic special forces teams tried to infiltrate the arms factories disguised as mercenaries.  The plan failed miserably and the Republic was exposed for waging war during a cease fire.  Several Jedi and Republic commando teams were captured and forced to make public confessions on the galactic holonet.  Balmorra has been firmly in the grasp of the Sith Empire for over 100 years, providing them with a steady supply of small arms, artillery and ship mounted weapon systems.  

well, that could set me up just fine. Figure that Shivak was the one that exposed them the last time and maybe that was the initial reason that Darth Varus decided to kill my master? Just thinking how to tie duder into this. That Sith lord is the only one that Shivak would think of that would know he's still alive.

Chris wrote:
Balmorra Arms Co has changed hands many times in the last 300 years of open war.  Their factories now resemble fortresses from the constant states of siege.  During the Galactic Cold War (period of the last campaign), Republic special forces teams tried to infiltrate the arms factories disguised as mercenaries.  The plan failed miserably and the Republic was exposed for waging war during a cease fire.  Several Jedi and Republic commando teams were captured and forced to make public confessions on the galactic holonet.  Balmorra has been firmly in the grasp of the Sith Empire for over 100 years, providing them with a steady supply of small arms, artillery and ship mounted weapon systems.  

whit10 wrote: Figure that Shivak was the one that exposed them the last time and maybe that was the initial reason that Darth Varus decided to kill my master?

I am not sure I follow what you are suggesting.....

1) the events are just a quick backstory for Balmorra, since Alan wanted to be on a mid-rim world.  They are just for flavor, so Shivak doesn't have to be tied into it.  remember this is a sandbox, so I have no big story to weave yourself into.  the story will be what you all determine it to be.

2), these events happened hundreds of years ago, if you read the narrative carefully.  Again, the events themselves are not significant, so we can easily change the timeline to say they happened recently, if you want Shivak to be involved in them.  It is currently a state of open war (for 300 yrs), so the Republic wouldn't need to go sneaking around, nor make an apology for it right now.  Again, we could change it to say they were doing something else that is morally questionable and got caught (by Shivak) like bio\chemical wpns, assassination, etc.  Which leads to (3):

3) can you explain how Shivak exposing Jedi and Republic commandos (or whatever) operating on Balmorra would make 1 Darth mad at another Darth?

I am not trying to be obstructionist here, I just don't understand how you want to tie him into it.  I am happy to change things to suit you for Shivak's backstory, since again, the events described were just for a quick reference and flavor.

my mistake, sorry man. I read that at 1 something in the morning. lol... Been a long last 24 hours.

the one suggestion came from the idea that the one Darth was very jealous of the other and wanted to get rid of him before it was "too late"?

whit10 wrote:the one suggestion came from the idea that the one Darth was very jealous of the other and wanted to get rid of him before it was "too late"?

I must be sleep deprived too, because I am still not following you

Let me try to refocus this.... I just randomly picked Balmorra since Alan said mid-rim. It doesn't matter what planet you are on or what its history is\isn't.

I was just trying to give you something to play with, but below is what is important

Chris wrote:
I said this would be a sandbox, so here is your chance!

this is how Shivak and Spike met.  roleplay out that drink and figure out some back story for the "contact" that hired you both to kill each other.....

GM parameters - the "contact" is still alive (plot hook) and you only have limited information about how to find the "contact"

Chris wrote: I must be sleep deprived too, because I am still not following you

The original premiss for Shivak was that he was presumed dead because another Sith lord, who was jealous of Shivak's master and his spy ring, set out to kill the guy and Shivak as well. He got one, missed the other... that was the only thing I was trying to say. It can always be adjusted.

Depending on how Matt and Dan construct their guys, assuming that Alan goes with Spike, I could be playing the Trandoshan hunter anyway (though I may pick a different race... see my comments on that guy on the Shivak page). Just keeping things open-ended right now

ok, well no point discussing things until you settle on a character

I'm going with Shivak unless something weird happens. I'm sorry that I implied otherwise

navyik wrote:To resist will+counterspell
(Hostile manipulation)
5+6+3=14 dice
15212546415623=5 hits

just a note from further reading....

we did this right, but we forgot that using Counterspelling consumed Spike's Free next available Free action

it didn't matter in this fight, since the spell worked via roleplaying instead of dice, but it is important to keep in mind that you lose the ability to move (free) in your next IP if you Counterspell

here's an idea... can we have a fight where we are a team vs. someone else?

I have been meaning to bring this up... I would like there to be some kind of conversation had between players on "roles" in combat. I'm not trying to be rigid about it at all, I just think that each character, depending on composition, should assume different roles in combat. For example: my guy is NOT a hack/slash guy nor a 'big gun'. He specializes in misdirection, confusion and avoiding combat when possible. He can also deflect incoming fire from blasters pretty well.

thoughts?

Good, we'll put you in front, Josh.