collaborative world building concept

basics about the economy of Meta City:

Memphis (Josh's Egyptian style fantasy ward) - is home to many races of beast-folk as described on his page.  Memphis is on the Road to the plane of Fire (not earth as previously pictured).  Memphis is also the only known location of what they call Ra stones, after their god.  Ra stones are a universal power source that works on all planes.  Ra stones are the primary source of income and geopolitical power for Memphis in Meta City.

Capadocia (home of the Chromites) - is a vast underground city.  The Chromites have many side tunnels that honeycomb their plane.  They provide valuable raw materials for Meta City, especially those with "magical" or unique properties like Mithral, and Adamantium.   Much of Meta City has been built with these materials.

Rata Sum (home of Asurans) - is a floating city connected to the plane of Air.  The Asurans are master engineers, though they rely on magic over science.  Unconstrained by the rules of physics or logic, they are able to invent wondrous devices.  Their creations are as much art as science.  As such, their production ability is limited.  Asurans are often employed as designers and engineers for other wards.  They do produce finished products but on a small scale.

? high tech ward (home of humans) - is a futuristic city in the mold of Blade Runner and Cyberpunk.  The power of the humans is in their manufacturing and diplomacy.  The humans can use their technology and robots to mass produce the designs of the Asurans, using Chromite materials and powered by Ra stones.  Humans have an uncanny knack for getting along with all the races and are often used as mediators and negotiators.

You are allowing all 5e materials, right? AiME books too? They've got some nice legendary weapons that could be reskinned.

Xanathar's Guide will have the new SubClasses, and Racial Feats too.

Robyo wrote:You are allowing all 5e materials, right? AiME books too? They've got some nice legendary weapons that could be reskinned.

Xanathar's Guide will have the new SubClasses, and Racial Feats too.

what are AiME books? if they are on Matt's google drive and you point out what you want me to look at, it's probably fine

sure, we'll see what Xanathar's guide has to offer if its out when we play

Adventures in Middle Earth

Robyo wrote:Adventures in Middle Earth

if it is 5e it's probably fine as they seem to do a really good job of balancing everything, particularly the classes (not as sure on some of the new races, lol)

as usual, just run it by me and we'll go from there

Picked up Xanathar's today! Looking forward to making my guy this weekend.

What level did you say? For starting gold, I take it we are using the advanced level starting wealth table in the DMG?

Robyo wrote:Picked up Xanathar's today! Looking forward to making my guy this weekend.

What level did you say? For starting gold, I take it we are using the advanced level starting wealth table in the DMG?

sweet!

I hadn't decided yet, honestly

the 2 ideas I was kicking around in my head were about 5th or 1st but fast-track the xp up to 5th so players can adapt their characters as they explore the world.  partially, it would depend on which path the player group decides to follow:  marshals, shadow runners, criminals or explorers.  how many players there are in the group, etc etc


So far, I count for sure Josh, Rob and Alan.  Joe expressed interest early on but has been quiet.  Mike and Matt haven't expressed interest so I am assuming they are out for now (though always welcome to change their minds)

updated (not final) map of Meta City and the Road\planes

Meta City



NW - Capadocia, home of the Chromites, underground city.  Walking city coming down the road!  on the Road to  earth plane

NE - tech city, adjacent to underwater city of the Cephalopods, elemental water Road

SE - Floating city, adjacent to Sky Maze, Road to Air

SW - Memphis, Road to Fire


map of the planes and Road

Chris wrote:

Robyo wrote:What level did you say? For starting gold, I take it we are using the advanced level starting wealth table in the DMG?

I hadn't decided yet, honestly

the 2 ideas I was kicking around in my head were about 5th or 1st but fast-track the xp up to 5th so players can adapt their characters as they explore the world.  partially, it would depend on which path the player group decides to follow:  marshals, shadow runners, criminals or explorers.  how many players there are in the group, etc etc

Um, okay. Guess I'll wait on char gen until you decide the level.

My guy is definitely a shadowrunner type (human-cyborg)...

@Rob - as a more experienced 5e'er, do you have a recommendation for starting level and\or xp progression?

style of play, ie shadow runner, explorer, etc is going to have to be a group decision. I wanted to offer the dedicated path of LE or criminal in case folks were interested in a more focused story, but freelance is cool with me too!

Levels 1-2 is rather deadly. Most PCs are glass canons. 3rd is nice, cause that's when subclasses kick in. Characters are fairly durable by then.

Attribute bonuses or extra feat option kicks in every 4 levels, I think.

I ran a fairly high powered campaign levels 10-17. Sometimes I found it difficult to challenge the PCs. The CR system isn't all that reliable. There's not a lot of high level beasties in the Monster Manual either. There's some other sources. And converting from PF or whatever isn't that hard.

Would appreciate to hear how Matt weighs in on that too.

EDIT: Looks like there's a new CR-factoring system in Xanathar's. Interesting.

thanks, Rob! that kind of tracked what I was thinking too.

Can you add Xanathar to Matt's google drive in pdf?

Sorry, I only have dead tree version. WotC doesn't release any of their rulebooks in PDF. You'll have to find some pirates, ARRR!

*Which is a great point of argument. In the end Wizards wants to make money. They do provide the Basic rules and a SRD for free. But the SRD still isn't the full PHB.

Which is why Paizo is so cool in that they put all their crunch online for free.

Definitely check out Unearthed Arcana!

technomages, "ghost in the shell" warlocks, modern spells like "arcane hacking" "find vehicle" etc

new archetypes, kits and options for several classes and psionics - basically, this gives the crunchiness 5e lacks, if you feel the need to go that route

the techno spells would definitely fit for adapting a City cleric or mage to a modern setting


Players Companion also has several new races and spells

Question for any 5e Gamemasters:


I see the DMG table for starting wealth at higher levels
I see the lists of magic items

I don't see anywhere that gives a monetary value to magic items. Does that still exist?

I guess I could do the 500gp + 1d10 x25 and then give everyone X, Y, Z rolls on some of the tables

5e is built so that magic items are "superfluous" to the mechanics. A +1 is a significant advantage. The maxed out +3 is a super big deal. There is no list of prices. Go to pg 135 of the DMG and read the RAW before you distribute magic items, especially the part about "attunement". It may change your views on magic items in this system. I'm guessing it will. This is also a very useful link to check out.
http://www.tribality.com/2015/11/02/dd-5e-magic-item-guide/

This is a great breakdown of items, by rarity and need for attunement:
https://donjon.bin.sh/5e/magic_items/

I know I have not spoken up yet - I am interested in this campaign! Things are just very intense here right now. Not much focus to spare.

MAS wrote:5e is built so that magic items are "superfluous" to the mechanics. A +1 is a significant advantage. The maxed out +3 is a super big deal. There is no list of prices. Go to pg 135 of the DMG and read the RAW before you distribute magic items, especially the part about "attunement". It may change your views on magic items in this system. I'm guessing it will. This is also a very useful link to check out.
http://www.tribality.com/2015/11/02/dd-5e-magic-item-guide/

This is a great breakdown of items, by rarity and need for attunement:
https://donjon.bin.sh/5e/magic_items/

I know I have not spoken up yet - I am interested in this campaign! Things are just very intense here right now. Not much focus to spare.

THANK YOU!

that really helps a lot.  I had keened into the power variable in 5e.  That is also reflected in the +2 prof bonus scaling so slowing and monster AC being so low compared to PF\3.x

Attunement max of 3 items does simplify the situation, though many items don't require it like all basic +1-+3 weapons\armor\shields.  

I do understand the intention of restricting them in typical fantasy 5e.

However, this is a very different genre and I take guidance from Plane shift Kaladesh pg 10 as well.  In that world, aether-powered devices (which use magic item stats) are very common.  They are regularly bought and sold. That book also talks about using stats from monsters for gyrocopters and robots.  It just falls short of using the term we coined "re-skinning" but it describes it in every other way.

I will use the attunement rules, as a matter of balance, but re-skinned magic items are definitely more common across the planes of the multiverse, even if they aren't considered "magic" on their native plane.

I am happy that you are interested in playing!  You always make such... interesting contributions

Happy to be of help.

That is a polite way of saying I do crazy shit, thank you! Lol!

My original idea was an incorpreal race...maybe they are sentient programs/AI, maybe ghosts, maybe a civilization that was the victim of a spell/technology gone wrong. But I'm not seeing rules in 5e to support that. Could probably pull it off in PF.

Looks like Josh and Alan made characters in the 5 to 8 level range. That's a place to start I guess.

Looking over Xanathar's, there's some great gish options. Or I might go with fighter again.

I will vie for 8th level as we rarely get to advance much in the forum campaigns. 5th level is great if you don't multiclass...

Holy cow, you've done some strong work in here. Makes me realize I'm less imaginative than I used to be. Gotta practice I suppose.

Still trying to figure out what I want to do in this world. For what it's worth, I'm okay playing along with the group on alignment etc.

I almost remade sir Perindor, but... Nah...

go for 8th level
standard 27 pt buy
NB: ability or feats at 4,6,8

for magic items I am leaning towards:

1 rare
2 uncommon
as many common as you can afford with starting gold for lvl 8

500gp + 1d10 x25 (525-750gp)

mind the attunement rules


and remember that magic items don't have to be "magic items".  they can be reskinned from other planes:  a high tech device, an aether-powered wondrous invention, etc

player's choice, not a roll, on the rare and uncommon. I may change it, but I am thinking that they should be character-defining items.

The price for each item: a short (3-4 sentences or more if you want) story about how your character acquired the item. for example: what plane were you on when you found it? did you beat an enemy to win it? why is it special to you? etc

the GM is fishing for story hooks

Sounds good!

FYI: If we have starting gold, then we wouldn't normally also gain starting equipment from Background and Class.

Robyo wrote:Sounds good!

FYI: If we have starting gold, then we wouldn't normally also gain starting equipment from Background and Class.  

Snitches get stitches, Rob...

..and end up in ditches

Haha, it's up to DM/Chris, really. The 500+ GP could just be treasure found while adventuring (post 1st level).

Also,
"go for 8th level cheers
standard 27 pt buy
NB: ability or feats at 4,6,8"

Feats/ABSI come later for multiclass characters. Each class has it's own level track.

*I don't recall a DM ruling regarding alien tech... So can we buy it? Personally, I think it unbalances the math too much (unless everyone gets a free laser gun LOL). But I am fine with reskinning crossbows/longbows as guns.

What does "NB" mean? I'm not up on the hip new texting lingo you kids are using these days...

I like Rob's thoughts:  

starting class\background equipment + 500gp for what you've earned post 1st + magic items as listed

no alien tech, as a balance issue.  re-skin bows\crossbows or anything from PHB

NB = nota bene from Latin "note well" or pay special attention
it's old, not new


that's just dumb about Ab\feats, lol. that should be based on total level, imo. but please follow rules as written
thanks for pointing that out

I think I know more Sanskrit than Latin  

ABSI=ABility Score Improvement. I agree by keeping it class-specific, it kind of sucks for multi-class characters, but it also serves to help keep game balance.

Pathfinder also tried to limit multi-classing brokenness, so they introduced the 20th level capstone abilities. Not like anyone ever makes it that far.

official GM rules for guns  

Simple firearms:

pistols =  light 1d6 (range 30/120)  

rifles = 2H, 1d6  (range 80/320)

martial firearms:

hvy rifles =  heavy, 2H .
1d8  (range 150/600)
1d10 (range 100/400)


all firearms - no loading
on a natural 1, you jam and must spend 1 action to unjam
+dex bonus to damage, same as bows\xbows

Keep track of ammo only if it's special type or magical ammo (same for bows\xbows)

Use the same stats for any type of gun - western style, modern\high tech, laser guns, etc.  I know that isn't logical per se, but I don't want this to be a huge balance issue and this keeps it simple.

There are special guns, but they are the equivalent of magic items (re-skin magic bows.

+1 ammunition works the same
arrow of slaying can be re-skinned into any ammo type
javelin of lightning - 1 shot laser blast
necklace of fireballs = grenade bandolier
potion of firebreathing = dragon's breath round for a shotgun or flamethrower
magic staves\wands = multi-guns used by technomancers

Great firearms house rules!

I like the standardized damage codes, despite tech level. My only quibble would be the choice to reskin damage type. So, a bullet normally does Piercing, but a laser might do Radiant, an antimatter gun might do Necrotic, etc.

I am also fine with ignoring extra rules like burst fire and full-auto capabilites, as well as tactics like fire suppression. But of course those can be fun too!

Robyo wrote:
I like the standardized damage codes, despite tech level. My only quibble would be the choice to reskin damage type. So, a bullet normally does Piercing, but a laser might do Radiant, an antimatter gun might do Necrotic, etc.

great suggestion, make it so!
that will be up to the player to decide based on their home-plane. damage type can be any 1 type: fire, cold, electrical, radiant, necrotic, etc

Robyo wrote:
I am also fine with ignoring extra rules like burst fire and full-auto capabilites, as well as tactics like fire suppression. But of course those can be fun too!

 errr..... uh.....  what book\page?

I dunno, even the flintlock pistols from the DMG do better damage than 1d6. I get that you're trying to reskin and balance the system, but at some point there should be a price for bringing a knife to a gunfight. There is already a feat tax on using paired pistols or "handcrossbows", which I find silly, especially if pistols are light, one handed, simple weapons...

navyik wrote:I dunno, even the flintlock pistols from the DMG do better damage than 1d6.  I get that you're trying to reskin and balance the system, but at some point there should be a price for bringing a knife to a gunfight.  There is already a feat tax on using paired pistols or "handcrossbows", which I find silly, especially if pistols are light, one handed, simple weapons...

I intentionally made pistols Light and simple so they could be dual-wielded, without loading for any firearms


normal rule:

Two-W e a p o n F ig h t in g
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light
melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can
use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee
weapon that you’re holding in the other hand. You don’t
add your ability m odifier to the damage o f the bonus
attack, unless that modifier is negative.
If either w eapon has the thrown property, you
can throw the w eapon, instead o f making a melee
attack with it.


this applies to light pistols as well



I see these 2 feats

C r o s s b o w E x p e r t
Thanks to extensive practice with the crossbow, you
gain the following benefits:
• You ignore the loading quality o f crossbows with
which you are proficient.
• Being within 5 feet o f a hostile creature doesn’t
impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls.
• When you use the Attack action and attack with a onehanded
w eapon, you can use a bonus action to attack
with a loaded hand crossbow you are holding.

and

D u a l W i e l d e r
You master fighting with two weapons, gaining the
following benefits:
• You gain a +1 bonus to AC while you are wielding a
separate melee weapon in each hand.
• You can use two-weapon fighting even when the onehanded
melee w eapons you are wielding aren’t light.
• You can draw or stow two one-handed weapons when
you w ould normally b e able to draw or stow only one.



Dual wielder still makes sense for melee, as you can use a bigger wpn, double draw\stow, and AC bonus

:study:Crossbow expert is fine since crossbows kinda suck with loading


NEW FEAT!

Pistol expert

Thanks to extensive practice with the pistols, you
gain the following benefits:

• Being within 5 feet o f a hostile creature doesn’t
impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls.
• You can draw or stow two one-handed weapons when
you w ould normally b e able to draw or stow only one.
• You gain a +1 bonus to AC while you are wielding a
separate melee weapon in each hand.



I basically just combined the two feats as pistols can already be dual wielded. Hand crossbows retain their penalties (guns are simply better).

although, one thing that doesn't seem to come up as often as it could... bows and crossbows are mostly "silent"

Let's take a quick vote here.  People are starting to create characters, backstories, etc.  I think it is important to decide the direction the party wants to go in terms of what kind of a story do you want to tell.

Please vote 1 time for 1 of the following party options:

1)  planar law enforcement - protecting the planes, good guys, work for higher power group (least personal freedom to choose what you do)

2) shadow runners\explorers - neutral,  any types of jobs you want, work for different entities, for hire, mercs

3) criminals - not necessarily evil, but personal gain > planar safety, self motivated direction (hardest for players to decide, but most freedom)


vote 2:

1) you are an established party, you write your own backstory of how you got together

2) first story will be about getting the band together

Vote 1:
#2 (but #1 is okay too). #3 is out of the question for Ghost, unless you're talking about Hooding (rob the rich, give the poor) type of criminality.

Vote 2:
#2, how the band got together

Vote 1, #1
Vote 2, #2

however, I'm fine with the other option for Vote 2 and the second option for Vote 1

Vote 1:. #1 (I'm ok with #2)
Vote 2: #2. (I'm ok with either)

bunch of indecisive nancies

DILLY! DILLY!

check out Rob's guy

he did a really good job of re-skinning race\class\items from fantasy to cyber-punk

https://lodgestgaming.forumotion.com/t371-the-grey-ghost-of-the-barrens#19254

whit10 wrote:although, one thing that doesn't seem to come up as often as it could... bows and crossbows are mostly "silent"

Excellent point Josh, and one reason why I went with a longbow, rather than sniper rifle, for Ghost. Even a silencer makes some noise.

Of course if we were going with realistic weapon ranges, the sniper rifle would edge out the long bow in that regard.

Robyo wrote:

Of course if we were going with realistic weapon ranges, the sniper rifle would edge out the long bow in that regard.

very true, especially futuristic sniper rifles, given that modern sniper rifles can hit from 5000+ feet.

realistically though, 320ft and 3200ft on a combat map are effectively the same, both exceed the map's size

Chris wrote:very true, especially futuristic sniper rifles, given that modern sniper rifles can hit from 5000+ feet.

realistically though, 320ft and 3200ft on a combat map are effectively the same, both exceed the map's size

Right! Since we usually use maps for combat, it's not much of an issue. However, we could resolve with text. This is a tabletop RPG, after all!

speaking of this sort of thing...

I really like D&D 5E now, however, swords should still be slashing/piercing. I mean, what kinda weird-assed sword are they thinking of?

Not a huge deal but pretty dumb given that you had to use the point most of the time (especially if you're opponent had armor on)

whit10 wrote:speaking of this sort of thing...

I really like D&D 5E now, however, swords should still be slashing/piercing.  I mean, what kinda weird-assed sword are they thinking of?

Not a huge deal but pretty dumb given that you had to use the point most of the time (especially if you're opponent had armor on)

This speaks to my only issue with 5e: balance is so important to this system that they forgot that swords are more versatile than other melee weapons.

Agreed. But if that is 2 uber-nerds biggest complaints, I can live with that

uh, no offense, it's not really anything to do with 'nerds' per se. It's the simple fact that, as usual, no one that designs fantasy gaming knows a fucking thing about swords and medieval combat.

But I digress... how can it be unbalancing to have them the way they have always been? (in PF and older D&D they were slashing/piercing)

Swords were highly valued for a reason - more versatile and useful than most other weapons. They were more expensive and more highly sought after by warriors of all kinds

whit10 wrote:uh, no offense, it's not really anything to do with 'nerds' per se.

oh?

whit10 wrote:
 It's the simple fact that, as usual, no one that designs fantasy gaming knows a fucking thing about swords and medieval combat.  

I see