OoG Discussion

There are several updates describing the world for the adventure I'll be running.

Check out the information thread out: https://lodgestgaming.forumotion.com/t380-the-nentir-vale
It details races, a few locations, and the pantheon that we'll be using.

Rumors and additional background can be found at: https://lodgestgaming.forumotion.com/t382-fallcrest-times-a-collection-of-news-and-rumours-from-across-the-vale
Consider these topics to be articles from the most widely circulated newspaper in the the Nentir Vale for traders and adventurers; then followed by some basic area knowledge DC 10 stuff.

Chris has begun building his character. A badass dwarf rogue/ranger combo: https://lodgestgaming.forumotion.com/t381-gnok-boulderfoot-ranger2-rogue1

GM, are we an established party already or shall we all meet up in the Blue Moon tavern?

Gnok would certainly be interested in adventuring work, though he has no love of "shadowy things" and prefers live targets like Ogres, Hobgoblins or even "twig" things



Starting gold + anything else? minor magic items, potions, etc

Chris wrote:GM, are we an established party already or shall we all meet up in the Blue Moon tavern?

Gnok would certainly be interested in adventuring work, though he has no love of "shadowy things" and prefers live targets like Ogres, Hobgoblins or even "twig" things



Starting gold + anything else?  minor magic items, potions, etc

Robyo wrote:The companions begin on the King's Road, having entered Harkenwold...

The party has recently come down from a dungeon crawl in the Dawnforge Mountains south of Hammerfast. They are heading towards Fallcrest, having recently heard rumors of work for adventurers in that bustling town.

Starting gold for 3rd level characters is listed in the DMG. As with Matt's game, your character can start with a +1 magic item.

oops, I missed that bit.

No problem! Let me know if you have more questions.

There's a fair amount of information to digest, but I want you guys to get a feel for the world. A little grit in which to tie your character's background.

That being said, this is a sandbox setting and you are welcome to create your PC background as you please (within reason).

Standard array or point buy? Did I miss that info somewhere?

Josef909 wrote:Standard array or point buy?  Did I miss that info somewhere?

Point buy as per the PHB. Starting gold for advanced characters is listed in DMG. You guys are 3rd level... Everyone is allowed a +1 magic item, and any common ones that you can afford.

I made a few variants as I explore 5e a bit more

dwarven ranger 3

halfling rogue 1 \ ranger 2

I might try a few others for fun, but it will be something along this theme

I'm not sure if I am looking at the right table. Looks like it is just starting gold (plus a +1 item). Do we roll gold or can we just max it?

navyik wrote:I'm not sure if I am looking at the right table.  Looks like it is just starting gold (plus a +1 item).  Do we roll gold or can we just max it?

this is the table that I am looking at



guac anyone?

navyik wrote:I'm not sure if I am looking at the right table.  Looks like it is just starting gold (plus a +1 item).  Do we roll gold or can we just max it?

Alan and everyone, please roll starting gold. If you take the gear provided by class and background options, then you don't get to roll for any starting gold.

Robyo wrote:

Josef909 wrote:Standard array or point buy?  Did I miss that info somewhere?

Point buy as per the PHB. Starting gold for advanced characters is listed in DMG. You guys are 3rd level... Everyone is allowed a +1 magic item, and any common ones that you can afford.

To be clear, the Point Buy table is PHB p.13.

The Starting at Higher Level table is DMG p.38. There isn't any alteration for 3rd level characters though. I am granting you guys a bonus +1 magic item.

ok, so we are broke right now, got it I seriously can't even buy starting equipment



question about combat stuff.... so I keep changing bits of the build, as I read the books. is this right?

for two-weapon fighting - both wpns must be LIGHT (unless you have the feat) but not necessarily finesse

for Sneak Attack - wpn must be finesse or thrown, but not necessarily light

off-hand attack uses a bonus action, so you can't use Rogue's Cunning Dash and attack off-hand

Sneak Attack damage is only 1 time per round, even with 2WF

Also, max HP for 3 levels like we did in Matt's game, or by the book Max+CON for L1, and then avg+CON for 2nd and 3rd?

Chris wrote:ok, so we are broke right now, got it I seriously can't even buy starting equipment



question about combat stuff....  so I keep changing bits of the build, as I read the books.  is this right?

for two-weapon fighting - both wpns must be LIGHT (unless you have the feat) but not necessarily finesse

for Sneak Attack - wpn must be finesse or thrown, but not necessarily light

off-hand attack uses a bonus action, so you can't use Rogue's Cunning Dash and attack off-hand

Sneak Attack damage is only 1 time per round, even with 2WF

I think it's usually a better deal to go with the starting gear options. But fear not paupers of low level, your characters have recently gathered some additional loot whilst adventuring in the Dawnforge Mts. I will give that to you right before we begin, since you've just acquired it (and haven't had a chance to spend it LOL).

The other rules look good, but I'd have to double check anything specific. I rarely play rogues...

The two weapon fighting thing is accurate. Nice you don't need a feat, but I think you don't get the attribute modifier to damage on the off hand.

just to let you know Rob, I'm fully planning on playing, I just haven't settled on a character yet.

I have a Tiefling Warlock that I made but I'm not completely sold yet

Josef909 wrote:Also, max HP for 3 levels like we did in Matt's game, or by the book Max+CON for L1, and then avg+CON for 2nd and 3rd?

Use the latter, by the book rule. Full at 1st level (+CON mod), and average+CON thereafter.

I'll be using the average for monster HP too, so it should balance out.

whit10 wrote:just to let you know Rob, I'm fully planning on playing, I just haven't settled on a character yet.

I have a Tiefling Warlock that I made but I'm not completely sold yet

Sounds good! Been hoping you'd join in the fun. Be sure and check out Xanathar's guide for some excellent warlock options.

I can't seem to find xanthars on the drive. Is it in the 5e section?

My google-fu is strong!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ALQD9Lx_kYCYxpsOAOYlG29WapuKSbld/view

I lost the link to Matt's drive. Can someone upload Xanathar's? Or else provide me the link and I'll do it...

Robyo wrote:The adventure I have in mind is called Reavers of Harkenwold. Please don't google it and read it in advance! It's not a huge puzzle solver anyway, but some mystery is required. I've run it a few times during face-to-face sessions and it's been a blast! Is it wacky? Well, sort of ...

So you can play the characters that you already have, or make new ones. Any races and classes allowed from any of the official WotC supplements. No Aaracockra or any other races with the Flying ability, please. And it helps if PCs are on the neutral-->good end of the spectrum.

Give me a week to get the adventure loaded into my calendar/priorities list and certain details sorted out. I will be using my home maps and minis, but it will be nice if Chris wants to do digital manipulation of the maps.


*Has anyone talked to Matt about this? I don't want to step on any toes.

Does anyone know if Whitey or Trouble are on board?

Finish up your toons soon! Departure is Friday, or sometime this coming weekend...

Trouble said he was in, but would just port over his char from Cry Havoc! Whitey hasnt chimed in as far as I know.

Trouble said he was in, but would just port over his char from Cry Havoc! Whitey hasnt chimed in as far as I know.

Whitey wrote:I'm in!

Whitey replied via email and posted in the other thread.  I linked this forum there too.
I think Trouble is going to use his elven ranger, correct


@Rob - yeah, there is no attribute modifier for off-hand unless you have the Ranger 2WF style, which is one of the reasons I went Ranger.  But my first couple builds were PF\3.x builds as you could use 1 regular wpn and 1 light wpn without issue, which is not the case in 5e.  Dwarf with battle axe (dwarven axe) + hand axe on a Strength-based 2WF works really well in PF, but unless you have the Feat in 5e (4th level all in 1 class) you can't do that.  I know it's a balance-rule and not a reality-rule, but I didn't notice it at first.

5e nerfed Strength-based Rogues in general since Sneak Attack can ONLY be a finesse or thrown weapon. That doesn't make any sense, logically, but again, I think it's just for balance. Seems silly you can't do a Sneak Attack with a ranged weapon, uh Sniper anyone?

I like the "bonus" action rules in 5e but it seems that everything uses a bonus action, so you can't really do as much as I first thought - in terms of burst.  For example, Hunter's Mark and 2WF both use the bonus action, so you have to set it up over 2 turns and then after you kill someone, you have to use the bonus to move the HM next turn, so you lose the 2nd attack again.  in my mind, that all worked together

back to the drawing board.....

I will probably still end up in the Rogue realm, just not sure how I want to put him together yet.  I will cover Traps etc, in any event, for the party

I added a Human variant with dual-wielder feat

and a pure Rogue variant, no ranger, but Trickster for spells instead of Ranger


I think I am going to try the pure Rogue (for today at least, lol)

The first char I made in 5e was a rogue, but I 9nly got to play him for a session or two. Pure rogue played through a full adventuring career looks awesome.

Josef909 wrote:The first char I made in 5e was a rogue, but I 9nly got to play him for a session or two.  Pure rogue played through a full adventuring career looks awesome.

same here! I made a rogue in a cyberpunk game of Rob's, but only got to play him briefly. he was a human assassin, so a hafling trickster should play differently enough to be interesting this time

Chris wrote:
@Rob - yeah, there is no attribute modifier for off-hand unless you have the Ranger 2WF style, which is one of the reasons I went Ranger.  But my first couple builds were PF\3.x builds as you could use 1 regular wpn and 1 light wpn without issue, which is not the case in 5e.  Dwarf with battle axe (dwarven axe) + hand axe on a Strength-based 2WF works really well in PF, but unless you have the Feat in 5e (4th level all in 1 class) you can't do that.  I know it's a balance-rule and not a reality-rule, but I didn't notice it at first.

5e nerfed Strength-based Rogues in general since Sneak Attack can ONLY be a finesse or thrown weapon.  That doesn't make any sense, logically, but again, I think it's just for balance.  Seems silly you can't do a Sneak Attack with a ranged weapon, uh Sniper anyone?  

I know right? My paladin is always smiting bitches with her longbow.


It's a balance thing, only explanation that makes sense. Same thing with keeping the action economy down to reasonable levels. I think Fighter gets the most attacks, no matter how you try to spin it.

Sometimes what's good for the game isn't good in real life.

Can my borrowed book on my current topic of study from the chloistered scholar background be a book of a handful of low level spells I am working on transposing?

navyik wrote:Can my borrowed book on my current topic of study from the chloistered scholar background be a book of a handful of low level spells I am working on transposing?

What book is that background in?

Josef909 wrote:Trouble said he was in, but would just port over his char from Cry Havoc!  Whitey hasnt chimed in as far as I know.

Chris wrote:

Whitey wrote:I'm in!

Whitey replied via email and posted in the other thread.  I linked this forum there too.
I think Trouble is going to use his elven ranger, correct

OK cool. Just so they know to adjust their character's HP, and starting gold (if they chose that route).

When chapter one goes up, I'll need everyone to chime in with an up-to-date stat block. I'm hoping everyone will be ready with their rebuilds by this weekend?

But before that, an update will drop concerning your characters' present fortunes as an adventuring company journeying in the Vale. Don't expect much, you're only 3rd level.

The str-based 2wf rogue is a ridonkulous crunch once they start getting sneak attack damage on multiple hits. I am impressed with 5e's balance overall.

I am excited to try the Trickster!

I am ready

Iirc, sneak attack applies once per turn?

Robyo wrote:

navyik wrote:Can my borrowed book on my current topic of study from the chloistered scholar background be a book of a handful of low level spells I am working on transposing?

What book is that background in?

Nevermind, I found it in SCAG.

I think your notion is overpowered, even if we were to use the Copying a Spell into the Book rules in the sidebar (PHB p.114). Using that rule, it would cost Leirthal 50gp per level per spell to copy them. And the spells would only be Evocation spells.

But seriously, what kind of friend loans out their spellbook?! Does that make any sense?

It's like a tool. Using the borrowed book, Leirthal would gain Advantage on Arcana checks.

Josef909 wrote:Iirc, sneak attack applies once per turn?

yep. There are certain prereqs to getting Advantage on the roll too.

Robyo wrote:

I think your notion is overpowered, even if we were to use the Copying a Spell into the Book rules in the sidebar (PHB p.114). Using that rule, it would cost Leirthal 50gp per level per spell to copy them. And the spells would only be Evocation spells. The sidebar doesn't appear to be an "optional" rule...

But seriously, what kind of friend loans out their spellbook?! Does that make any sense?

It's like a tool. Using the borrowed book, Leirthal would gain Advantage on Arcana checks.

1.  I can't copy found spells?  That is the primary appeal of the wizard class.  Balance is still struck by the limit on what he can prepare.  I don't see anything about limiting the transcribed spells to your specialty either...
2.  I thought of it more like an old book from a magic library, like the sidebar says...
3.  I'm good with calling the book a tool for advantage arcana.

4. Can I have a wand or ring that grants a +1 on spell attacks or save DC?

I'm eager to see what oddities we have acquired on our previous adventure.  I like this twist.  It is made more interesting by our limited standard equipment.

Robyo wrote:

Josef909 wrote:Iirc, sneak attack applies once per turn?

yep. There are certain prereqs to getting Advantage on the roll too.

This is another example of 5e improving on the old "back-stabbing" rules which always required surprise, invisibility or true opposite flanking positions.

in 5e, any time the rogue has Advantage they get SA or anytime there is "an enemy of the target" within 5 ft - it doesn't even have to be engaged with it in melee or actually flanking anymore  

Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with
an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The
attack must use a finesse or a ranged w eapon.
You don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another
enemy o f the target is within 5 feet o f it, that enemy
isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on
the attack roll.

Assassins can also get SA as an opening shot while the enemy is "flatfooted" as PF calls it, before they have taken an action and free crits if they are fully surprised

it is only once per turn, but I think total damage for rogues is still up since Finesse wpns now apply Dex damage without a feat tax and ACs are generally much lower

Played smartly, you should be able to tack on SA damage almost every turn, be it from having an ally within 5' of target, or by attacking with advantage (i.e. hiding the previous round with your bonus action.)

The assassinate rules are quite a bit more sticky, as you can have surprised enemies (a challenge unto itself) and lose the initiative roll, which makes it unusable. Its an extremely potent ability when it can be deployed, but it is very situational. I think if i rerolled a rogue, i would choose the swashbuckler subclass from Xanathars Guide to Everything. Love the ability to stick and move without provoking opportunity attacks.

navyik wrote:Can I have a wand or ring that grants a +1 on spell attacks or save DC?

I'm eager to see what oddities we have acquired on our previous adventure.  I like this twist.  It is made more interesting by our limited standard equipment.

Copying a spell is certainly possible. I'm just saying Leirthal's borrowed book is not a spellbook.

Sure, as his bonus +1 magic item, he can have a ring which grants wearer +1 to either spell attack OR spell defense (not both).
Furthermore, once daily the ring grants a damage bonus to any combat spell equal to intelligence modifier. You must finish a long rest to use this property again.

You still need a spell focus to cast.

Thanks.

Josef909 wrote:Played smartly, you should be able to tack on SA damage almost every turn, be it from having an ally within 5' of target, or by attacking with advantage (i.e. hiding the previous round with your bonus action.)

The assassinate rules are quite a bit more sticky, as you can have surprised enemies (a challenge unto itself) and lose the initiative roll, which makes it unusable.  Its an extremely potent ability when it can be deployed, but it is very situational.  I think if i rerolled a rogue, i would choose the swashbuckler subclass from Xanathars Guide to Everything.  Love the ability to stick and move without provoking opportunity attacks.

That's my plan!


Ok, I gotta check out this Xanathar's guide..... I don't know that archetype

https://www.pdf-archive.com/2017/11/15/d-d-5e-xanathar-s-guide-to-everything/d-d-5e-xanathar-s-guide-to-everything.pdf


swashbuckler and scout are both really cool

so is umbral ranger - kind of the ranger\rogue combo I was originally going for

Sorcerer and Warlock with healing variants!

Hexblade Warlock looks fun

lots of new variants

Josef909 wrote:Played smartly, you should be able to tack on SA damage almost every turn, be it from having an ally within 5' of target, or by attacking with advantage (i.e. hiding the previous round with your bonus action.)

 I think if i rerolled a rogue, i would choose the swashbuckler subclass from Xanathars Guide to Everything.  Love the ability to stick and move without provoking opportunity attacks.

Swashbuckler literally would have SA every turn, since they now get SA when fighting an enemy solo too.

every rogue can already stick + move using Cunning action for Disengage, but Swashbuckler gets Disengage for free and can use Cunning for extra movement (Dash)

Chris wrote:

Josef909 wrote:Played smartly, you should be able to tack on SA damage almost every turn, be it from having an ally within 5' of target, or by attacking with advantage (i.e. hiding the previous round with your bonus action.)

The assassinate rules are quite a bit more sticky, as you can have surprised enemies (a challenge unto itself) and lose the initiative roll, which makes it unusable.  Its an extremely potent ability when it can be deployed, but it is very situational.  I think if i rerolled a rogue, i would choose the swashbuckler subclass from Xanathars Guide to Everything.  Love the ability to stick and move without provoking opportunity attacks.

That's my plan!


Ok, I gotta check out this Xanathar's guide.....  I don't know that archetype

Swashbuckler
I love ranged, but this type of mobile damage skill monkey is really appealing. Multiclassing with some monk levels to make a ridiculously mobile combatant, leaving proned enemies in their wake could also be super fun.

Josef909 wrote:

Swashbuckler
I love ranged, but this type of mobile damage skill monkey is really appealing.

now I am torn between Swashbuckler and Trickster....

I'm here!! I just read through ALL the posts. Head spinning a bit...Now I really feel like a newbie with this, but up for the challenge. The show here in Seattle opens tomorrow, so I'll still need a couple days to get ARA all squared away. I'd also love to take advantage of some of this upgrading but could use a little guidance. Anybody up for an offline email discussion to help re-shape ARA?

Is Saturday too late to get it done?

I'll look it over for you, but I think all you'll need to change is your max hit points.

Just drop from 4 to 3 and I think Joe is right otherwise. HP goes down and he is ready to roll.

First chapter is up: https://lodgestgaming.forumotion.com/t387-1-ilyana-s-plight

If Chris wants to add coordinates to the gridded map, that might help.


Please post your starting position (SE corner of the road), along with your character's statblock and a picture.

Adventure on!

https://lodgestgaming.forumotion.com/t381-nok-stumbletoe-rogue-3#19765

backstory posted

@Alan - I made a hook to your character, let me know if that's ok

https://lodgestgaming.forumotion.com/t384-leirthal-the-magnificent#19792

Backstory Posted