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4 posters

    PF2e questions - characters, rules, etc

    Chris
    Chris


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    Post  Chris Fri May 19, 2023 8:09 am

    That all sounds fine, go for it.
    Chris
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    Post  Chris Fri May 19, 2023 8:14 am

    Also, Intimidating Glare is a really good skill feat!

    You can use a 3rd action to Demoralize without words. Some pts into Intimidate and Cha, if you spare them, would help
    MAS
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    Post  MAS Fri May 19, 2023 9:46 am

    whit10 wrote:yeah, the Goblins in this game are pretty cool. I had one made up, months ago, that had the bite attack... needless to say he was going to be something akin to a Tasmanian devil

    Thatd be a sick build! You could do the razortooth goblin for bite attack and with an additional ancestry feat, tailed goblin w/ heavy tail for an additional unarmed bludgeon. Barb, Monk, and Fighter all interesting directions.
    whit10
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    Post  whit10 Fri May 19, 2023 4:24 pm

    lol... yeah, I thought about making him a barbarian with that bite attack. Ok, sure, he wouldn't do as much damage as say a human or whatever but that would have been so much fun!

    Might keep it as an idea for later on if my fighter buys the farm
    navyik
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    Post  navyik Fri May 19, 2023 7:26 pm

    PF2e  questions - characters, rules, etc - Page 2 Screen10

    As is appropriate for Grimgar The Conflicted, I changed my mind. I can’t seem to get the character sheet to display. It comes up blank.
    navyik
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    Post  navyik Fri May 19, 2023 8:04 pm

    PF2e  questions - characters, rules, etc - Page 2 Screen11

    Here's the alternative if I can use another book for alternative archetypes.
    Chris
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    Post  Chris Fri May 19, 2023 8:45 pm

    The greataxe mauler is fine, no problem.
    navyik
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    Post  navyik Fri May 19, 2023 9:55 pm

    Chris wrote:The greataxe mauler is fine, no problem.

    He will be the most fun I've had playing a cleric. 😄
    Chris
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    Post  Chris Sat May 20, 2023 8:14 am

    navyik
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    Post  navyik Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:30 pm

    Can a spell caster cast 2 spells in the same turn as long as he has enough actions?
    Chris
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    Post  Chris Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:44 pm

    navyik wrote:Can a spell caster cast 2 spells in the same turn as long as he has enough actions?

    yup!

    Cast a Spell
    Source Core Rulebook pg. 302 4.0
    You cast a spell you have prepared or in your repertoire. Casting a Spell is a special activity that takes a variable number of actions depending on the spell, as listed in each spell's stat block. As soon as the spellcasting actions are complete, the spell effect occurs.

    Some spells are cast as a reaction or free action. In those cases, you Cast the Spell as a reaction or free action (as appropriate) instead of as an activity. Such cases will be noted in the spell's stat block—for example, “ verbal.”



    so True Strike + a spell
    a spell + Shield

    are both legal examples confirmed by my forum research on paizo
    navyik
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    Post  navyik Tue Jun 20, 2023 4:46 pm

    I want to ask this here so as not to interrupt the adventure. How does “no light in the chute” make dark vision less useful?

    “Darkvision You can see in darkness and dim light just as well as you can see in bright light, though your vision in darkness is in black and white.”
    Chris
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    Post  Chris Tue Jun 20, 2023 4:59 pm

    navyik wrote:I want to ask this here so as not to interrupt the adventure. How does “no light in the chute” make dark vision less useful?

    “Darkvision You can see in darkness and dim light just as well as you can see in bright light, though your vision in darkness is in black and white.”

    uh....

    (sound of pages frantically flipping)

    uh.....


    you are correct, I must have had a brain fart and thought of low-light vision.


    Darkvision and Greater Darkvision
    Source Core Rulebook pg. 465 4.0
    A creature with darkvision or greater darkvision can see perfectly well in areas of darkness and dim light, though such vision is in black and white only. Some forms of magical darkness, such as a 4th-level darkness spell, block normal darkvision. A creature with greater darkvision, however, can see through even these forms of magical darkness.
    navyik
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    Post  navyik Tue Jun 27, 2023 12:21 pm

    I have a Judge “at large” from Peoria now. He doesn’t have a courthouse. He specializes in cases that cannot be heard in the originating county.
    Chris
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    Post  Chris Tue Jun 27, 2023 12:29 pm

    navyik wrote:I have a Judge @at large” from Peoria now.

    interesting, good luck!



    also FYI to all - the Carbones are taking their summer road trip from this Thur through all of next week. So gaming will be paused until approx Sat July 8th after tomorrow. I would ideally like to get through the current area but pause before the next fight, if possible. That might mean we begin the pause later today, depending on quickly it goes.

    navyik
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    Post  navyik Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:51 pm

    I have started a loot thread
    Chris
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    Post  Chris Tue Jun 27, 2023 8:02 pm

    Strong work!
    MAS
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    Post  MAS Tue Jun 27, 2023 9:19 pm

    navyik wrote:I have a Judge @at large” from Peoria now.

    Good stuff!

    [quote="Chris"]
    also FYI to all - the Carbones are taking their summer road trip from this Thur through all of next week.  So gaming will be paused until approx Sat July 8th after tomorrow.  I would ideally like to get through the current area but pause before the next fight, if possible.  That might mean we begin the pause later today, depending on quickly it goes.

    [/quote]

    Have fun!
    navyik
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    Post  navyik Fri Jun 30, 2023 10:34 pm

    I’ve been playing with the character builder a lot. I think the right build for Grim would have been Champion with Sorcerer Angelic Archetype.
    MAS
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    Post  MAS Sat Jul 01, 2023 1:13 pm

    Chris will let you reconfigure I bet. Post a copy of the build?
    navyik
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    Post  navyik Sat Jul 01, 2023 9:01 pm

    MAS wrote:Chris will let you reconfigure I bet. Post a copy of the build?

    I’m torn because of the ranged healing that a sorcerer dedication can’t get until 4th level. But I feel like the fighting ability of a Warpriest never catches quite up enough to fighters. In the long run the Paly-Sorcerer fits the way I want to play him. Touch healing used to be the only low level healing, so I’m probably overthinking it.
    whit10
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    Post  whit10 Sun Jul 02, 2023 11:12 am

    I feel like I might change or at least rebuild a bit at 2nd level. Chris said that's totally allowable since we're playing a new system and still getting used to it.

    Chris
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    Post  Chris Mon Jul 10, 2023 8:57 am

    Hello all!

    We are back from a great week in Texas on the Gulf shore. I hope everyone had a safe and happy Independence Day!

    I will get gaming going here, maybe later today. I only have 58,352 work emails to catch up on first drunken

    I also have some family issues that I am dealing with. I think Josh and Matt are aware, so I probably owe Alan a call at some point.


    I am absolutely fine with re-specs and pf2e even has mechanics for it in the game, though we don't need to go there unless folks want it for RP purposes. You will meet an NPC soon in the current adventure that can accomplish this.

    Let's just say you can make changes any time you level up. That gives everyone time to play with things for a few weeks. Let me know if that seems fair or you have a better suggestion. I am open to whatever works for everyone.
    MAS
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    Post  MAS Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:07 am

    Chris wrote:Hello all!

    We are back from a great week in Texas on the Gulf shore.  I hope everyone had a safe and happy Independence Day!

    I will get gaming going here, maybe later today.  I only have 58,352 work emails to catch up on first drunken

    I also have some family issues that I am dealing with.  I think Josh and Matt are aware, so I probably owe Alan a call at some point.  


    I am absolutely fine with re-specs and pf2e even has mechanics for it in the game, though we don't need to go there unless folks want it for RP purposes.  You will meet an NPC soon in the current adventure that can accomplish this.  

    Let's just say you can make changes any time you level up.  That gives everyone time to play with things for a few weeks.   Let me know if that seems fair or you have a better suggestion.  I am open to whatever works for everyone.  

    Glad you had a great trip!

    Hang tough brother, reach out anytime.
    navyik
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    Post  navyik Tue Jul 11, 2023 10:34 pm

    Yeah, holler when you’re ready. I may have to call back if I am with a customer.
    Chris
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    Post  Chris Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:05 pm

    Hey all,

    It looks like I am going to Rockford to help my mom out. I am probably travelling Wed or Th and will be there for maybe a week. I am hoping we can finish the current snake fight but then I will probably need to pause again due to the current mess of shit. SORRY!

    @Alan - I would like to see you and your family if you have time. Maybe over the weekend?
    @Matt - Thanks for the ride! I hope its not the only time we can hang out.
    navyik
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    Post  navyik Tue Jul 18, 2023 7:00 am

    Beamans are up for a visit. Maybe Friday evening or Sunday afternoon?
    Chris
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    Post  Chris Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:29 am

    navyik wrote:Beamans are up for a visit. Maybe Friday evening or Sunday afternoon?

    great! let me see what shakes out over the next couple days. I will text you when I am in Rockford.

    Also - think if you know any general handymen that I could hire for my mom to help her fix things around the house. I know of 1 item, the front porch light that has some wiring issue, not just replacing a bulb. I am sure there will be more minor items in the future.
    navyik
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    Post  navyik Wed Jul 19, 2023 8:33 pm

    Civil Suit trial is set for mid April. Judge says it is a firm schedule.
    Chris
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    Post  Chris Wed Jul 19, 2023 8:39 pm

    Nice!
    Go get sum!
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    Post  whit10 Thu Jul 20, 2023 9:32 am

    good luck Alan!
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    Post  navyik Thu Jul 20, 2023 3:04 pm

    Thanks guys.
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    Post  MAS Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:32 pm

    Keep at it Alan!
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    Post  Chris Fri Jul 28, 2023 8:31 am

    gaming is back up!


    also, I have a new personal cell phone number that I won't post here because of the bots

    it has the same area code and prefix as my old number

    but it ends in 7921
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    Post  navyik Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:43 am

    Do we keep superfluous xp earned from after leveling up or is it wasted?
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    Post  Chris Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:09 pm

    Yes, you roll them over. I need to do a final calculation as i was just being lazy

    Please post here when you have completed the shopping and level up /respec process. Lets aim for Monday to start act II
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    Post  Chris Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:15 pm

    You had 850/1000 after the snake fight

    Hallod was worth 120
    80 bonus for story reward of solving murder

    Everyone starts at 50/1000 towards 3rd
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    Post  navyik Mon Sep 04, 2023 3:07 pm

    So I’ve been evaluating the flexibility of the PF2e system for the ability to make a proper fighting cleric. I had the character built well beyond 15th level with a few blanks to fill in but have observed that healing mojo is still taxed but maybe not as bad because so much of it is skill based. “Battle medicine” is really helpful and the short rest healing is all contingent on the healing skill. I envision Healing as a skill that multiple party members should have trained and even expert.
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    Post  whit10 Mon Sep 04, 2023 6:22 pm

    I noticed Battle Medicine as well. Very useful ability.

    I've been considering going with a two-handed weapon approach to combat. Nothing against shield and weapon but it seems like there is more flexibility with feats, especially ones that allow manuevers.
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    Post  navyik Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:41 pm

    whit10 wrote:I noticed Battle Medicine as well. Very useful ability.

    I've been considering going with a two-handed weapon approach to combat. Nothing against shield and weapon but it seems like there is more flexibility with feats, especially ones that allow manuevers.

    Grim has the war axe. Given shields likelihood of being tossed aside after a block or two, I like the versatility feature for two hands. You might consider a Bastard Sword.
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    Post  whit10 Mon Sep 04, 2023 9:31 pm

    I have considered that and several other options. There is a nifty 4th level fighter feat called Knockdown. You can use a 2 handed weapon to trip and it doesn't have to have the "Trip" moniker for the weapon.
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    Post  navyik Mon Sep 04, 2023 9:38 pm

    It’s on the Mauler list too. 😀
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    Post  navyik Thu Sep 14, 2023 5:02 pm

    I’m going to try to research this for the long run here and not argue it in the moment in the adventure.

    Shield block: You snap your shield in place to ward off a blow. Your shield prevents you from taking an amount of damage up to the shield’s Hardness. You and the shield each take any remaining damage, possibly breaking or destroying the shield.

    Hypothesis: it wards off a blow. A single blow. If that blow deals two types of damage which cumulatively add up to less than what penetrates the shield, then every consequence of the attack should be mitigated.

    Example: wolf with acid bite attacks grim for 3 damage with 2 acid.

    Argument: The “source” of all of this damage is a single blow. It’s a single attack which was blocked.  The acid damage is contingent on landing the blow. If the wolf misses, no acid damage is dealt. So unless the acid damage can either bypass the shield or overcome its hardness it should not get through.

    Further mitigation of subsequent damage:
    The subsequent tear damage the wolf can deal should be mitigated by the fact that the initial blow is blocked. This should be mitigated regardless of the ruling on acid damage because once again, the initial blow sets the contingency for tear damage in motion.

    Grim should block the blow, which also blocks the tear.
    If the RAW states that the acid gets through, then the tear is still mitigated but the persistent acid damage gets through.  If RAW can be satisfied to mitigate the initial acid damage as well, then the entire damage is mitigated.

    Research: what does RAW ACTUALLY say about this scenario involving “sources” of damage? Is it one bite that sets an inseparable chain in motion? Does the interruption of the first link in that chain mitigate the entire sequence?
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    Post  whit10 Thu Sep 14, 2023 6:17 pm

    I think its more due to the fact that that attack actually hit. There isn't a way, for instance, to resist things like grapple, trip, etc. if you hit with them. If you miss, then you miss. The shield only takes up to 5 damage from the attack. I believe that the extra damage is all still applied.

    But Chris will know this one better than I.
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    Post  navyik Thu Sep 14, 2023 6:26 pm

    whit10 wrote:I think its more due to the fact that that attack actually hit. There isn't a way, for instance, to resist things like grapple, trip, etc. if you hit with them. If you miss, then you miss. The shield only takes up to 5 damage from the attack. I believe that the extra damage is all still applied.

    But Chris will know this one better than I.

    The damage from the attack was 5. 3 piercing and 2 acid. It isn’t splash damage. It’s from the bite. But the wolf only bit the shield. 

    Everything else is contingent on taking damage. If Grim took no damage, then nothing else happened. 

    I can’t find any RAW beyond the shield block feat. In the description of the feat there is no RAW that counters my argument. I only found redit debates that are obtuse or require inference that goes outside the scope or defies common sense.

    Experiment:  If I fill a glass jar with acid and put it in a pillow case I have a weapon. If I swing it at a shield, the whole thing hits the shield. The jar bludgeons, breaks, slashes, pierces, and finally expels its contents ON THE SHIELD.
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    Post  Chris Fri Sep 15, 2023 9:08 am

    rules lawyering for the win!

    I love it and I appreciate the chance to learn more about the system.



    Shield Block
    [reaction]
    Feat 1
    General
    Source Core Rulebook pg. 266 4.0
    Trigger While you have your shield raised, you would take damage from a physical attack.
    You snap your shield in place to ward off a blow. Your shield prevents you from taking an amount of damage up to the shield’s Hardness. You and the shield each take any remaining damage, possibly breaking or destroying the shield.



    the shield only blocks physical damage per RAW


    what is physical damage?

    Damage Types
    Damage has a number of different types and categories, which are described below.
    Physical Damage
    Damage dealt by weapons, many physical hazards, and a handful of spells is collectively called physical damage. The main types of physical damage are bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing. Bludgeoning damage comes from weapons and hazards that deal blunt-force trauma, like a hit from a club or being dashed against rocks. Piercing damage is dealt from stabs and punctures, whether from a dragon's fangs or the thrust of a spear. Slashing damage is delivered by a cut, be it the swing of the sword or the blow from a scythe blades trap.




    ergo....   the shield only blocks bludgeoning, piercing and slashing.  so the acid gets through, which causes damage, which satisfies the "trigger"

    Tear [one-action] Trigger The wolf dealt damage to a creature with its jaws during the previous action. Effect The wolf tears at the creature’s flesh, dealing 1d6+2 slashing damage and 1 persistent acid damage.


    the jaws do 2 types of damage

    Melee [one-action] jaws +11, Damage 1d8+4 piercing plus 1d6 acid



    also, I LOVE the fact that I didn't need to go searching for dev tweets or reddit posts.  PF2e has clearly and well written rules.  we just need to read them!
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    Post  navyik Fri Sep 15, 2023 6:10 pm

    RAW doesn’t say that the “damage” must be defined as “physical.” It says that the TRIGGER for shield block is taking damage from a physical attack. The shield blocks the blow from the physical attack.

    The damage that is blocked is NOT defined as “physical” damage. It’s just “damage.”

    The acid damage from the bite is the result of a physical attack. The bite. Without hitting with a bite there is no acid damage. It isn’t a spell attack that delivers the acid damage. It’s a bite attack. A physical attack.

    Furthermore, if “physical damage” is interpretively required, RAW does not say that bludgeoning, slashing, and piercing are the “only” physical damage. They are the “main” types. Why does the statement leave room for the non-main types and what are they?

    I did read the rules. They don’t actually say what you are interpreting.


    Last edited by navyik on Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  navyik Fri Sep 15, 2023 6:42 pm

    The item description of a dragon slayers shield says it can prevent 18 energy damage using 8 hardness and 10 resistance.

    Can shield block be used against a spell that deals slashing, bludgeoning, or piercing damage?  

    If a spell attack can deal “physical damage,” then can’t a “physical attack” deal acid damage?
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    Post  navyik Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:32 am

    Okay, someone on the Paizo site shared this from a clarification. I found it in the 4th printing core book. 

    Pages 266 (Clarification): Can I use Shield Block if I take physical damage that didn't come from an attack?
    Shield Block can only be used against physical damage from attacks, since non-attack effects can't trigger the Shield Block. For instance, if you walk over a square of hazardous terrain that deals piercing damage to you, having your shield raised doesn't help you, nor does it help if you need to make a Reflex save against a spell that deals bludgeoning damage. Some abilities let you use Shield Block with other triggers, as seen in the shield spell and the fighter's Reflexive Shield feat, but these exceptions are noted. Also note the 4th printing errata to spellguard shield (page 588) allows it to apply in this way.


    It says “physical damage from attacks.”  This still doesn’t answer the question as to what the non-main types of physical damage are. I can argue that the acid coating the wolf’s teeth must interact with whatever the wolf’s teeth bit. (If you’ve ever dipped your hand in a stripping tank, you found it quite physical).

    At that point we have to defer to the DM but there’s no clear RAW.


    Last edited by navyik on Sat Sep 16, 2023 10:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Chris Sat Sep 16, 2023 10:05 am

    You are on to a great point here, wow.  Thank you for beating this mostly-dead horse!  


    I think you are right and I found the RAW that supports it cheers

    We need to look at "Hardness" and "item damage" rules for our answer.


    Hardness
    Source Core Rulebook pg. 277 4.0
    Whenever a shield takes damage, the amount of damage it takes is reduced by this amount. This number is particularly relevant for shields because of the Shield Block feat. The rules for Hardness appear in Item Damage.



    Item Damage
    Source Core Rulebook pg. 272 4.0
    An item can be broken or destroyed if it takes enough damage. Every item has a Hardness value. Each time an item takes damage, reduce any damage the item takes by its Hardness. The rest of the damage reduces the item’s Hit Points. Normally an item takes damage only when a creature is directly attacking it—commonly targeted items include doors and traps. A creature that attacks you doesn’t normally damage your armor or other gear, even if it hits you. However, the Shield Block reaction can cause your shield to take damage as you use it to prevent damage to yourself, and some monsters have exceptional abilities that can damage your items.



    and there it is!   Hardness reduces ANY DAMAGE




    I think we actually had the "what can I block?" rules correctly read earlier, we just didn't take it 1 step further to understand item damage and hardness as RAW.

    but just for clarity

    Shield Block
    [reaction]
    Feat 1
    General
    Source Core Rulebook pg. 266 4.0
    Trigger While you have your shield raised, you would take damage from a physical attack.



    this should have a special font, because "attack" is a TAG.  the thing attacking you has to have the ATTACK tag to count as an "attack"

    so....


    Telekinetic Projectile
    Cantrip 1
    Attack Cantrip Evocation
    Source Core Rulebook pg. 377 4.0
    Traditions arcane, occult
    Cast [two-actions] somatic, verbal
    Range 30 feet; Targets 1 creature
    You hurl a loose, unattended object that is within range and that has 1 Bulk or less at the target. Make a spell attack roll against the target. If you hit, you deal bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage—as appropriate for the object you hurled—equal to 1d6 plus your spellcasting ability modifier. No specific traits or magic properties of the hurled item affect the attack or the damage.


    so this spell counts because it has the "attack" tag and it deals "physical" damage


    however

    Ray of Frost
    Cantrip 1
    Attack Cantrip Cold Evocation
    Source Core Rulebook pg. 362 4.0
    Traditions arcane, primal
    Cast [two-actions] somatic, verbal
    Range 120 feet; Targets 1 creature
    You blast an icy ray. Make a spell attack roll. The ray deals cold damage equal to 1d4 + your spellcasting ability modifier.

    this does not, even though it has the "attack" tag, it does not deal physical damage, it deals "energy" damage only




    so the wolf jaws do piercing + acid, but they can be blocked as a "physical attack" therefore ALL the damage goes to the Hardness (since hardness applies to all damage).  the shield would totally negate 3p +2 acid, so it does 0 damage to Grim which does NOT trigger the Tear effect

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