HomeMAS wrote:
I think Alan is describing a tool set much more than a game, but this group of grouchy old coots definitely isn't the audience for it, Lol!
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OoG during Pirates
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hahah, awesome!
I suppose I should start my long posts with - "So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time..."
I suppose I should start my long posts with - "So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time..."
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Chris wrote:navyik wrote:
Such an app would absolutely not be a video game. It would exist only to minimize busy work and to empower players to do things like move their own pieces and draw areas of effect so we can see an accurate map after each declaration. It will track initiative, hit points, temporary modifies, spell durations and anything else that makes DM duty a pain and gets us in trouble with each other when we try to post our actions over a 20 minute lunch break. It will reduce the amount of forum time spent waiting for our turns while someone argues with the DM about character placement or whether or not they should be affected by an obstacle.
that sounds exactly like a video game, lol
the arguments would then become, "the app is wrong" and not "the DM is wrong"
it loses the descriptive narrative of what's happening by both player and GM.
Chris, when we sit at a table, who moves your game piece?
When you can move your own piece without having to explain the mechanics you can focus your attention on the descriptive narrative. You can SEE how the sight lines are affected by terrain and position.
In the current state we role play less because we spend so much effort just getting the pieces into an agreed location, and copying and pasting, that we don’t have time to also say what the character is thinking. Nothing about this new app idea limits your ability to describe or role play.
Most of my posts come from the toilet. I know it’s glamorous. If the DM has to track and interpret text-to-movement without the player’s contribution to the visual, it takes forever. That’s why I seldom DM.
Due respect and not angry at all, I think you’re prejudiced against the idea instead of offering constructive counterpoints. That’s okay. You’re out. I will work on this and offer tests at some point when it’s ready. I think I can win you over.
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I am not angry either, I just see it differently, I guess, and we can disagree. I do like arguing, in case you hadn't noticed 
There are several actual D&D video games out there already that let a DM design a dungeon with monsters, traps, treasure, hallways, LoS, etc and players can make a character to play through it as a group. We could do that now, but it would lose 100% of the table top feel, at least to me.
If you are suggesting that players must access both a video game app and the forum, that doesn't seem to be speeding things up to me. Move my pieces, make rolls, etc on a virtual game board, then go the forum and describe what I just did? We can barely get some folks to log into 1 website from the toilet. I suspect laziness or sincere lack of time would leave us with just the moving pieces in a video game dungeon.
I have indeed offered (or supported some of Matt's ideas) constructive countpoints - scheduled turns, pre-rolled AoO, pre-rolled SVs, letting the GM roll SVs, etc. None of which require a 2nd program to run or log into and still allow each GM creative freedom to run their game.
The toilet posts could be avoided completely since everyone has 1 full day to declare their actions, 1 full day to resolve issues, 1 day for GM to post resolutions and update the map. We could get through 2 full combat rounds in a week! We barely get through 2 people's turns in a week sometimes with our current pacing and setup. Again, that's no fault of any recent GMs.
As I have said several times, I will play whatever someone comes up with when they are the GM. That doesn't mean that I, or anyone else, has to adopt that for their turn as GM.
Alan, if you are ready, willing and able to run the next Pirate chapter, I will play with whatever format you choose. If you want to work on your virtual tabletop app first, then maybe someone else should run the next chapter.
Matt suggested that I run a single encounter to test some new ideas, before some asshole shot hit it down
I can try some\all of the above ideas, if that buys you more time or run a shorter chapter or just be a player.
It took me a while to comprehend what Matt was talking about, so maybe when I see your idea, it will all make sense to me too. I look forward to being won over
There are several actual D&D video games out there already that let a DM design a dungeon with monsters, traps, treasure, hallways, LoS, etc and players can make a character to play through it as a group. We could do that now, but it would lose 100% of the table top feel, at least to me.
If you are suggesting that players must access both a video game app and the forum, that doesn't seem to be speeding things up to me. Move my pieces, make rolls, etc on a virtual game board, then go the forum and describe what I just did? We can barely get some folks to log into 1 website from the toilet. I suspect laziness or sincere lack of time would leave us with just the moving pieces in a video game dungeon.
I have indeed offered (or supported some of Matt's ideas) constructive countpoints - scheduled turns, pre-rolled AoO, pre-rolled SVs, letting the GM roll SVs, etc. None of which require a 2nd program to run or log into and still allow each GM creative freedom to run their game.
The toilet posts could be avoided completely since everyone has 1 full day to declare their actions, 1 full day to resolve issues, 1 day for GM to post resolutions and update the map. We could get through 2 full combat rounds in a week! We barely get through 2 people's turns in a week sometimes with our current pacing and setup. Again, that's no fault of any recent GMs.
As I have said several times, I will play whatever someone comes up with when they are the GM. That doesn't mean that I, or anyone else, has to adopt that for their turn as GM.
Alan, if you are ready, willing and able to run the next Pirate chapter, I will play with whatever format you choose. If you want to work on your virtual tabletop app first, then maybe someone else should run the next chapter.
Matt suggested that I run a single encounter to test some new ideas, before some asshole shot hit it down
I can try some\all of the above ideas, if that buys you more time or run a shorter chapter or just be a player.
It took me a while to comprehend what Matt was talking about, so maybe when I see your idea, it will all make sense to me too. I look forward to being won over
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I don't get the whole videogame analogy either. As someone who doesn't play videogames at all, I really don't see the connection.
Similarly, when my Starfinder campaign moved over to video conferencing (because pandemic), I had a few players drop out, saying it would be too much like a videogame. But it's nothing of the sort! Just a bunch of players in separate windows with me (GM) moving pieces around on a map. Well, next month we'll be playing in meatspace once again, now that everyone has been vaccinated.
Alan, I think Matt mentioned it, but have you looked at Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds? They pretty much have all the tools you're describing, and the heavy lifting (programming) has already been done. Roll20 has a free version, which works quite well, just doesn't include a few bits and bobs, like the dynamic lighting feature.
Similarly, when my Starfinder campaign moved over to video conferencing (because pandemic), I had a few players drop out, saying it would be too much like a videogame. But it's nothing of the sort! Just a bunch of players in separate windows with me (GM) moving pieces around on a map. Well, next month we'll be playing in meatspace once again, now that everyone has been vaccinated.
Alan, I think Matt mentioned it, but have you looked at Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds? They pretty much have all the tools you're describing, and the heavy lifting (programming) has already been done. Roll20 has a free version, which works quite well, just doesn't include a few bits and bobs, like the dynamic lighting feature.
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Chris wrote:
Alan, if you are ready, willing and able to run the next Pirate chapter, I will play with whatever format you choose. If you want to work on your virtual tabletop app first, then maybe someone else should run the next chapter.
Matt suggested that I run a single encounter to test some new ideas, before some asshole shot hit it down
I can try some\all of the above ideas, if that buys you more time or run a shorter chapter or just be a player.
It took me a while to comprehend what Matt was talking about, so maybe when I see your idea, it will all make sense to me too. I look forward to being won over
Lol, awesome! Im on board with however we proceed.
@Alan - Ill start a thread in the test lab for discussing/developing your idea further. I'll be stopping by to say happy Birthday to Gretchen during tomorrow's thing, and we can jaw about it some more then?
@Rob's Starfinder Game over Google has worked pretty well. He does a webcam over an old school tabletop map (WITH PLASTIC DINOS!!! lol!) and its been manageable with up to 5 players so far.
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Robyo wrote:
Alan, I think Matt mentioned it, but have you looked at Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds? They pretty much have all the tools you're describing, and the heavy lifting (programming) has already been done. Roll20 has a free version, which works quite well, just doesn't include a few bits and bobs, like the dynamic lighting feature.
I know we looked into both of those in the past. I just looked at both of them again very briefly.
Google meets, zoom, teams, etc would all work fine with screen sharing and for a live game. But that is not what we are doing here and doesn't allow people to post when they have time during the day.
Correct me if I am wrong, but both of those are for playing a live game online, not for play-by-post.
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that is my take on it as well Chris. I use those all the time for work, not sure how that would make this forum function any better?
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Chris wrote:Robyo wrote:
Alan, I think Matt mentioned it, but have you looked at Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds? They pretty much have all the tools you're describing, and the heavy lifting (programming) has already been done. Roll20 has a free version, which works quite well, just doesn't include a few bits and bobs, like the dynamic lighting feature.
I know we looked into both of those in the past. I just looked at both of them again very briefly.
Google meets, zoom, teams, etc would all work fine with screen sharing and for a live game. But that is not what we are doing here and doesn't allow people to post when they have time during the day.
Correct me if I am wrong, but both of those are for playing a live game online, not for play-by-post.
here is my thought, easily tested if folks want to, free for you all cuz I already took the hit:
I bought Fantasy Grounds Ultimate and the U5 ruleset for it, it also came with Dnd 5e. Anybody with a free/demo version can log into a game I setup and have access to all the features I have.
If I just leave a game room open, there is no reason it cant be used at our own pace; folks could in fact log on and take their turn exactly like on the forum, as long I keep it up and running in a window.
I've had the same game setup and running in the background as I work on it for a few weeks at a time.
At a simple level of use, People can log in any time - and with some permissions control, only be able to move their own token. Post their turn in the chat box with rolls, and log out. The combat tracker, chatbox, and internal dice are great. We could run it as lean or heavy on features as we like, but It can do almost everything the forum does but better. Its native map tools alone simplify a lot support issues. If Im not GMing the game I can most likely do the system setup for them and put the tools in the hands of whoever is running the game.
Its capabilities are well positioned to support our play-by-post use-case, IMO. As with adapting "round the table" dnd to "forum" dnd, it comes down to developing the "process" of applying the capability to our play style. I'd put it at 90%+ solution, assuming I'm correct about the ability to drop-in/out of a cloud hosted game.
It may take some elbow grease, and would probably benefit from a couple of sessions where we are actually able to get online together; maybe spend a few hours some night drinking beers/enjoying a smoke to teach everyone how to use it while we BS and visit over Zoom/Discord or something.
Id be happy to step aside from playing and partner directly with a GM to work support for a game, too. The GM does the traditional GM game running thing, and Ill do the tech support (which could include maps, tokens, art, music, sound FX, etc).
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MAS wrote:
If I just leave a game room open, there is no reason it cant be used at our own pace; folks could in fact log on and take their turn exactly like on the forum, as long I keep it up and running in a window.
I've had the same game setup and running in the background as I work on it for a few weeks at a time.
At a simple level of use, People can log in any time - and with some permissions control, only be able to move their own token. Post their turn in the chat box with rolls, and log out. The combat tracker, chatbox, and internal dice are great.
Chris on the outside
Chris on the inside
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based on what I'm seeing posted, it appears as though the main 'campaign' or what not will be incorporating several other things that I don't care for.
If that's the case, ok then. I'll just sit that one out.
If anyone wants to run something that doesn't require all that jazz, let me know. I'm fine with something else or a small group.
Otherwise, guess I'm done after Mike's chapter of Pirates
If that's the case, ok then. I'll just sit that one out.
If anyone wants to run something that doesn't require all that jazz, let me know. I'm fine with something else or a small group.
Otherwise, guess I'm done after Mike's chapter of Pirates
navyik- Posts : 5040
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YOU STILL MAKE ALL OF YOUR USUAL DECISIONS AND GIVE YOUR OWN DESCRIPTIONS. IT JUST WONT TAKE A FREAKING HOUR TO DO IT EVERY TIME. (Emphasis added for clarity and not for anger).
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play what you want
I'm not arguing about this... it's not worth it
I'm not arguing about this... it's not worth it
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whit10 wrote:based on what I'm seeing posted, it appears as though the main 'campaign' or what not will be incorporating several other things that I don't care for.
If that's the case, ok then. I'll just sit that one out.
If anyone wants to run something that doesn't require all that jazz, let me know. I'm fine with something else or a small group.
Otherwise, guess I'm done after Mike's chapter of Pirates
Lol I love ya Dude, that's like the 4th post you've made saying that...we get it.
For the record, you are the only one "arguing" about it, everyone else is having a friendly, productive discussion and enjoying hanging out with each other.
If your goal is only to play a game, cool man, hope that whatever gets settled on and offered next/down the road suits you.
If your goal is to spend time with your friends, we'd love to have you hanging out and contributing - as in putting effort into finding solutions to shape and meet the groups overall goals. Feel you'd have valuable input to offer as we figure things out.
If you don't want to participate in shaping the end state, maybe consider waiting to see what it ends up being before shooting it down?
Maybe show some faith that your friends are trying to create a situation that everyone feels comfortable with, including you?
Now grab your skull pants and get on the collaboration party bus, we're having fun doing cool game dev things together!
@ anyone interested
Very simple to test Fantasy Grounds, we will coordinate, Ill set up a test game and leave it running for access. Caveat/FYI, Im still learning all the features myself!
We can run similar tests on Roll 20, too.
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Now tell me this does not peak your interest...
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I'm so totally down! It's long past due the time to burn this bloated unsecured forum.
It's long past due the time to burn this bloated unsecured forum.
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really Matt, you honestly thought that would work? A guilt trip??? Now I'm really done with this
Maybe its more of a "I'm really tired of the arguments, the forum in general and gaming in general"...
anyway, I've said all I have to say
Maybe its more of a "I'm really tired of the arguments, the forum in general and gaming in general"...
anyway, I've said all I have to say
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I will work on setting up a FG account, maybe today, if I have time. I have lots of questions, but hopefully it will be answered by testing it.
just to say it..... the actual game has been stalled for 5 days, since last Friday. Everyone except Joe has posted here multiple times in that span. It sure would be nice if everyone showed the same level of attention and activity to the actual game. Maybe then it wouldn't take a week for 1 person's turn to resolve.
just to say it..... the actual game has been stalled for 5 days, since last Friday. Everyone except Joe has posted here multiple times in that span. It sure would be nice if everyone showed the same level of attention and activity to the actual game. Maybe then it wouldn't take a week for 1 person's turn to resolve.
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I still think whatever methodology we employ it's still going to boil down to attention and participation from the players and DM. That being said, I'm open to whatever platform y'all want to use. The forum format is cumbersome and the limitations have been kicked around ad nauseum. I'd definitely be up for something more modern and user friendly.
What I don't have the appetite for is playtesting and working the bugs out of a new system, so I'll leave that to those of you that have more enthusiasm for that sort of thing. I'll happily take some on-boarding instruction and jump in after that point, though.
And I suspect, like with most innovations, our resident Luddite will come around after everyone else has carefully explained the merits of adopting the scary new & shiny thing to him, eh Josh?
What I don't have the appetite for is playtesting and working the bugs out of a new system, so I'll leave that to those of you that have more enthusiasm for that sort of thing. I'll happily take some on-boarding instruction and jump in after that point, though.
And I suspect, like with most innovations, our resident Luddite will come around after everyone else has carefully explained the merits of adopting the scary new & shiny thing to him, eh Josh?
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Whitey wrote:
What I don't have the appetite for is playtesting and working the bugs out of a new system, so I'll leave that to those of you that have more enthusiasm for that sort of thing. I'll happily take some on-boarding instruction and jump in after that point, though.
I understand this point of view and appreciate it. I don't want the actual gaming to stop while the playtesting happens. Let's see how quickly something like FG or R20 can be adapted\adopted. I would still be willing to run a SHORT adventure using this forum whilst Matt and Alan get FG\R20 up and running. I don't think that needs to be decided until after the current chapter concludes, by which time we may already have a better idea of feasibility.
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@Matt
fantasy grounds account created
user name: Dunehammer
fantasy grounds account created
user name: Dunehammer
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never been a luddite Mike, I just don't embrace new tech unless I see a need for it. It's a 'moderate' view of the whole thing...
and insulting me, picking at me, etc.... that's the best way I know for me to really stop giving a shit in general.
If you guys come up with a platform/method that is far superior to this, that's one thing. I'll give it a review. However, at this point, I'm not hearing that...
and insulting me, picking at me, etc.... that's the best way I know for me to really stop giving a shit in general.
If you guys come up with a platform/method that is far superior to this, that's one thing. I'll give it a review. However, at this point, I'm not hearing that...
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whit10 wrote:
and insulting me, picking at me, etc.... that's the best way I know for me to really stop giving a shit in general.
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whit10 wrote:never been a luddite Mike, I just don't embrace new tech unless I see a need for it. It's a 'moderate' view of the whole thing...
and insulting me, picking at me, etc.... that's the best way I know for me to really stop giving a shit in general.
If you guys come up with a platform/method that is far superior to this, that's one thing. I'll give it a review. However, at this point, I'm not hearing that...
Just jokes bro.
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Chris wrote:@Matt
fantasy grounds account created
user name: Dunehammer
I understand this point of view and appreciate it. I don't want the actual gaming to stop while the playtesting happens. Let's see how quickly something like FG or R20 can be adapted\adopted. I would still be willing to run a SHORT adventure using this forum whilst Matt and Alan get FG\R20 up and running. I don't think that needs to be decided until after the current chapter concludes, by which time we may already have a better idea of feasibility.
I still think whatever methodology we employ it's still going to boil down to attention and participation from the players and DM. That being said, I'm open to whatever platform y'all want to use. The forum format is cumbersome and the limitations have been kicked around ad nauseum. I'd definitely be up for something more modern and user friendly.
What I don't have the appetite for is playtesting and working the bugs out of a new system, so I'll leave that to those of you that have more enthusiasm for that sort of thing. I'll happily take some on-boarding instruction and jump in after that point, though.
Cool man we'll get that worked out later today, Im writing my Renda post now.
Chris is spot on about the intent to test as a parallel effort. Its a developing situation, and doesn't need to be the primary effort.
As Mike pointed out, there are some of us that enjoy the process of development, and we are having fun doing it. Those that dont enjoy it, thats totally cool, but we are still going to invite you becuase we want you to feel welcome and included. No foul if it isnt your thing.
Once things are at a point where we can offer a solid "full test" we'll invite everyone to participate in a full blown run, but there are things that need to be tested and lined out yet.
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Fantasy grounds:
Public cloud server name: LodgeTest
Password: rockford
You should be able to log in, and I think Ive made everything accessible. Please grab me a screenshot when you get in so I can see if we are seeing the same things, buttons, etc.
Right now, it has 5e SRD loaded but the full 5e Players Guide and DMG, have to buy those separate and I started with U5.
Zoomable map currently showing range to target from PC token and dynamic LOS masking from the PC token's position!
Public cloud server name: LodgeTest
Password: rockford
You should be able to log in, and I think Ive made everything accessible. Please grab me a screenshot when you get in so I can see if we are seeing the same things, buttons, etc.
Right now, it has 5e SRD loaded but the full 5e Players Guide and DMG, have to buy those separate and I started with U5.
Zoomable map currently showing range to target from PC token and dynamic LOS masking from the PC token's position!
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Roger, working the problem, standby
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just want to apologize for being more of a red-ass than usual. It's been a shitty week in general, which I suppose I should be used to after the last few years.
Just wanted to say that
Just wanted to say that
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whit10 wrote:just want to apologize for being more of a red-ass than usual. It's been a shitty week in general, which I suppose I should be used to after the last few years.
Just wanted to say that
No worries bro. It gets to all of us from time to time
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Any chance we can move the Fantasy Grounds stuff to another thread?
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Whitey wrote:Any chance we can move the Fantasy Grounds stuff to another thread?
Yeah man Im gonna clean that up real quick
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navyik wrote:Robyo wrote:I'm willing to try Alan's resolutions system. Also intrigued by the innovations in Matt's game.
Would love to run something, but just too busy these days. Think it would be fun to continue the Weird West game sometime.
Olistaff is ready to go!
That's awesome! When I do it, we would run the Radiance system again. It would be a great opportunity to incorporate the Expansion Kit, which has a ton of new races, classes, and options.
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Folks:
I'll be off-grid/forum and largely without comms until next tuesday. If Renda's turn comes up, somebody go ahead and play him.
I'll be off-grid/forum and largely without comms until next tuesday. If Renda's turn comes up, somebody go ahead and play him.
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MAS wrote:Folks:
I'll be off-grid/forum and largely without comms until next tuesday. If Renda's turn comes up, somebody go ahead and play him.
will do, be safe!
let me see if I remember how to play Renda..... ah yes.... Fish are friends not food.
no, no.... Clan are friends not food.
yup, that's it.
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https://lodgestgaming.forumotion.com/f26-war-games
Josh and I are going to play some of the new Axis and Allies 1941, if anyone is interested in watching him kick my ass across 6 continents and 7 seas
Josh and I are going to play some of the new Axis and Allies 1941, if anyone is interested in watching him kick my ass across 6 continents and 7 seas
whit10- Posts : 6622
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oh now, I have had my ass-kicked many times before....
this is just a new game for you to try and do the same thing. lol
this is just a new game for you to try and do the same thing. lol
Robyo- Posts : 3587
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Chris wrote:https://lodgestgaming.forumotion.com/f26-war-games
Josh and I are going to play some of the new Axis and Allies 1941, if anyone is interested in watching him kick my ass across 6 continents and 7 seas
Good to see some people try a board game on the forum. I've thought Diplomacy would be pretty easy to do on here. I'm interested to see how you guys handle it. A&A'41 is supposedly a bit lighter and faster than the full version, so it's a good choice for this format.
whit10- Posts : 6622
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we're doing 1940. It's a bit insane and more complicated than that one. lol
Robyo- Posts : 3587
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whit10 wrote:we're doing 1940. It's a bit insane and more complicated than that one. lol
Ohh! That's the big one! You guys will be playing for awhile.
navyik- Posts : 5040
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Oooo. I will peek in from time to time.
Chris- Posts : 9519
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Robyo wrote:
Ohh! That's the big one! You guys will be playing for awhile.
MAS- Admin
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Robyo wrote:Chris wrote:https://lodgestgaming.forumotion.com/f26-war-games
Josh and I are going to play some of the new Axis and Allies 1941, if anyone is interested in watching him kick my ass across 6 continents and 7 seas
Good to see some people try a board game on the forum. I've thought Diplomacy would be pretty easy to do on here. I'm interested to see how you guys handle it. A&A'41 is supposedly a bit lighter and faster than the full version, so it's a good choice for this format.
Hell yeah guys, have at it!
MAS- Admin
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Back from the wilds of WI and ready to get gaming again!
Thanks for standing by on Renda, @Chris!
A lot of moving parts right now, but working on get JOE going again soon. Will be sending out invites for participation by end of weekend which lay out the posting structure, schedule, and resources/rules so folks can clearly judge if they want to participate. If we have anyone new coming on board, they'll have a week or so to do characters while we wrap the first scene and intro Robs element.
Updated: We found out my mom has a much more manageable/treatable tumor than the aggressive cancer originally suspected. Big relief!
Thanks for standing by on Renda, @Chris!
A lot of moving parts right now, but working on get JOE going again soon. Will be sending out invites for participation by end of weekend which lay out the posting structure, schedule, and resources/rules so folks can clearly judge if they want to participate. If we have anyone new coming on board, they'll have a week or so to do characters while we wrap the first scene and intro Robs element.
Updated: We found out my mom has a much more manageable/treatable tumor than the aggressive cancer originally suspected. Big relief!
Chris- Posts : 9519
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MAS wrote:
Updated: We found out my mom has a much more manageable/treatable tumor than the aggressive cancer originally suspected. Big relief!
that's great news!
whit10- Posts : 6622
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good to hear Matt!!
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https://www.thrillist.com/news/nation/wendys-rpg-feast-of-legends-dnd
https://www.feastoflegends.com/
"The nation of Freshtovia has been the lone beacon of hope in the land of Beef’s Keep for decades. However, the Ice Jester and his rogues gallery of frozen fiends threaten Queen Wendy’s reign of prosperity. Prepare your heroes for adventure."
https://www.feastoflegends.com/
"The nation of Freshtovia has been the lone beacon of hope in the land of Beef’s Keep for decades. However, the Ice Jester and his rogues gallery of frozen fiends threaten Queen Wendy’s reign of prosperity. Prepare your heroes for adventure."
navyik- Posts : 5040
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MAS wrote:https://www.thrillist.com/news/nation/wendys-rpg-feast-of-legends-dnd
https://www.feastoflegends.com/
"The nation of Freshtovia has been the lone beacon of hope in the land of Beef’s Keep for decades. However, the Ice Jester and his rogues gallery of frozen fiends threaten Queen Wendy’s reign of prosperity. Prepare your heroes for adventure."
We must.
whit10- Posts : 6622
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navyik- Posts : 5040
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whit10 wrote:
Maybe get a tiny desk and hold it to your face with both hands.
Chris- Posts : 9519
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